For those not on the Aptera Facebook forums, we've been having a spirited discussion about battery size, range, and road trips. A recent article on the Ford Mustang Mach-E prompted me to think about highway range and how EV road trip mileage is presented in testing articles and videos. Since some who are interested in the Aptera are also new to EVs, I wanted to point out how the driving and charging cadence on EV road trips typically works.
Typically, you don't run the battery to 0% state of charge (SOC) and typically, you don't charge above 80% after the first trip leg because the 80-100% SOC charge time takes so long. Therefore the battery charging and discharge cycles tend to oscillate in the 20-80% SOC. One important factor is the charging power and thus speed. This is where the Aptera is a game changer. 50 KW DC fast charging (slow by 2021 standards) would add enough energy in 20 minutes to cover more than 2 hours of driving due to the Aptera's efficiency. Even the lowly but ubiquitous 7KW Level 2 chargers add a mile a minute of range.
Since we all still have the opportunity to do the final configuration on our Apteras before delivery, please think about what range and battery size makes the most sense for *you*. One size does not fit all.
Discussion and constructive feedback is welcomed.
-Karl
Reservation #14005
For me it's a toss up between 400 and 600 miles. It's not often I want to drive 400 in one day so even if I stopped for lunch and gave it a boost I would get about 400 miles using 20-80% battery. Normally I would never drive 400 miles in a day so why would I need to weight and cost of 600mile range. From Auckland to Wellington, far further than I would want to drive in a day is only 305 miles
That is why I chose the Aptera 60kWh for hopeful twice a year cross country trips
I don’t like to drive more than 500 mi/day
Thinking with ( - range reductiobs)
-AWD, - 75mph AZ interstate speed and heat and - occasional elevation change + some range via solar production.... this may be right for me???
( I understand with rapid DC charging you can’t also have solar but them again the charging time is less and if DC charge when the sun sets... doesn't matter)
I plan to be mindful of the Aptera‘s 700# weight limit too
I hope the Off Road wheel covers are just a change out of their std more aerodynamic covers so I can do that sesonally???
Karl brought up some excellent points. Besides knowing how to use charge your battery, one must be careful not to deplete it too far. His 20-80% rule is spot on in the EV community for maximum battery health. Also remember that the range estimates are most likely under ideal conditions. I do not think real world driving will achieve this. This means something approximating 68 degrees ambient temperature, highway speed of 55 mph (or less), dry conditions, probably 1/3 maximum payload, with no use of air conditioning or heater and a professional driver. Even though the Aptera has a very low coefficiency of drag, it still will exhibit drag forces with speed just better than most other vehicles. I may rethink moving up a battery size. Thanks
The question will no longer arise until delivery in 2023, since the solid-state batteries (2021 NIO) or the 4680 cells (2021 Tesla) will already be available by then. More will follow:
- Tesla / LG Gem 4680 Battery
- QuantumScape Solid State Battery
- SALD nanocoating Li-ion Battery
- Imec solid state Li-Me Battery
- Samsung Graphene Battery
A tech question I was thinking on... the battery tech is advancing rapidly.
I’d suggest that if you have never owned a BEV, go to abetterrouteplanner.com and try some trip planning. We have a 2020 Tesla MS with 402 miles range. It’s not enough for real world conditions in Arizona and Utah. There are little to no chargers in or near the national parks unless you get lucky and find a Level 2 destination connection. I’m not complaining about the Tesla S. We are averaging 250 Watt-Hours per mile. We ordered the 60 kW Aptera. I think that plus the solar will work out. Also, if Aptera does make a deal with Tesla, be aware that when a Supercharger location is busy, they software limit you to an 80% state of charge. If the Aptera is your second car to get you to work, errands and general stuff around a metro area, you may be just fine with the 25kW. Plug into a 120 volt 15 amp outlet in you garage and get 10 miles per hour of charge. You won’t even need a 240 volt circuit.
Thx, even works for Europe.😀
Thanks for making me re-check aBetterRoutePlanner.com because the first time I gave up on the weird "WH/MI" units. This time I realized my car's 5 mi/kWh is 1/5 of a kWh/mi or 200Wh/mi, & when I drive fast & get only 4 mi/kWh it's 250Wh/mi.
One thing to keep in mind is that, unlike with a Tesla, an Aptera is also less dependent upon charging stations, not only because of it's solar power capability, but also because it can plug into a standard wall socket to get you about 12 miles per hour worth of range. So even when you go to a camping ground or rent an AirBNB with a standard wall socket and you stay over night that should get you more than enough juice to get you to a place where there is a real charging station. If you check into a place and leave 9 hours later that would be an additional 108 miles of range. If you stay 12 hours because you decide to take your time with the continental breakfast and read the paper before you go then that would be an additional 132 miles of range. And just from overnighting at a standard wall socket. That would hardly be the case with a Tesla. This, IMHO, greatly alleviates any range anxiety. Because it pretty much assures me that I won't be left stranded somewhere.
Thx Nice
I did not download but had some questions
1
Who loaded the Aptera 60 and 100 kWh in this?
2
Does it know the final Aptera charger plug requirement yet to focus on the proper chargers out there?
3
I guess any solar charge range is a slight safety margin on calculated miles
As far as which charger plug, I figure you mean the EVSE connection? I saw on a promotional video it had a Tesla plug, but in the above app, it takes you to CCS and ChaDeMo Charge stations. The original version had just a 120 volt 3 prong plug, but that was before the US had many highway charging stations. The capability for DC fast charging and its rate will determine how one would determine which battery size would be required.
I have ordered the 60kw version, I live in Michigan where temps can be as low as -20 degrees F. running the heater with temps below zero will easily cut the range in half. I also live on dirt roads, so I plan to add the off road package that will also reduce the range a little and the AWD option to deal with the snow.
So with the 60kw option I should still have enough range to make it to the airport and back.
Where in Michigan? I'm in Muskegon and there's another reservation holder near Holland, MI. I'm also thinking of the 60 kWh version.
@Karl Bloss I'm in Hartland, Good to know others in Michigan have reservations.
Hey fellow Michiganders! The 25kWh would cover my regular driving with plenty of margin; I simply don't drive much day-to-day. Even in winter, even in slush, I simply don't imagine using more than half that battery except for a few times a year.
BUT. For those few roadtrips, I'm looking at 500+ miles each way for some, 1100+ for others, so ain't nothin' gonna cut it without stopping to charge at least a few times. So now that I'm resigned to stopping, what's the sane battery size to stop a reasonable number of times? It looks like 25 is just awkward, 40 is probably doable, 60 and 100 are nicer but untenably expensive.
Looks like I should consider upgrading to the 40. I'll be closely watching charger availability in the upper peninsula, which would presently be almost impossible with the 25.
Thank you for providing that. It's Very useful indeed. it would be great to have the 25 and 40kw options in there too wouldn't it. With a 60kw battery I could drive all the way from Auckland to Christchurch with only a 47min top up on the way, extraordinary. And if it's really sunny perhaps not even that would be needed.
I ordered the 25 kWh version with the estimate of 400 km range which if proves to be accurate should be more than plenty for my needs. All of my family lives either within 100 km (max), or on the other side of the country (an 8 hour flight away) were driving isn’t really an option anyway.
Look again, the 25 kw version has a estimated range of 250 miles, the 40 kw version is the 400 mile version,
Look again David. 250 miles = 400 km. :-)
I would like an 8kWh to 10kWh battery.
Going 200% to 250% of my US average daily drive is more than enough, as proven by my Fiat 500e meeting all my needs for over 5 years. For any long distances I just borrow/swap/rent, or drive the EV to the airport.
What is the trade off with battery size and weight as range increases? Acceleration and cargo space impacts?
Although I don’t have a company document on this.,,,I am expecting
Models. Range Weight
25 kWh. 250 miles. ~1800# 40. 400.
60. 600
100. 1000. ~2200
Since 100kWh is last, impact, if any , by battery pack size/ placement to cargo area TBD
All models:
FWD 5.5 sec 0-60 mph
AWD 3.5 sec
Trying to deliver same range between FWD vs AWD ... TBD????
I believe Cargo weight limit of 200# is more related to not bottoming out the back wheel to bittom of the cargo area( in an extreme bump situation) ? I believe the front seat weight allowance was planned at 300# for passengers (total) for total 500# vehicle inside wright load
BUT all in test before I think we see it published... where you can say beyond that. total weight....
“for every pound added means a % of range loss ”
I heard the weight difference between the three different type of solar cell configuration is minimal.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I hope that helps?
@Len The Founders said 500 lbs. TOTAL, including two 150 lb. occupants. So, with 300 lbs. of driver and passenger, you're left with 200 lbs. of cargo.
I will ask direct because a video I have ssys 250# “passengers“ and 200# cargo
After all...Not many 150# adult American males
I ordered the 400 mile range. Although from Europe I want to take delivery in the USA and travel cross country 3 months USA, 3 months Canada.
I never drive more than 3h without taking a break. So I figured it will be just fine for me. Else I am not in a hurry. I want to drive off highways on scenic routes and enjoy the effortless quiet travel, destinations and show it to interested people along the route. Give some test drives.
I will probably film it with a GoPro and create some YT and Instagram channels documenting my journey.
In 2019 I rented a BMW i3 for 6 months and we liked it. Since 2020 I have a 250 miles Renault Zoe and I love it. On the waiting list for a Microlino a Uniti and Sondors as well. Call them my bucket list lol.
What will you do with the Aptera after your journey?
@Max Conrad He opens an Aptera spare parts store, especially for front wheels, wheel covers and solar foils 😁
@loswa That was my idea!🤣
We have a 2020 Tesla S with 402 miles range and live near Tucson, Arizona. It is very efficient and averages 250 watt-hours per miles at “mixed” speed. I agree with 3 hours driving, but if there is no DCFC after 3 hours what are you going to do? I have ordered the 600 mile Aptera. I suggest you do the same. It will give you more freedom.
٩(˘◡˘)۶
No one is mentioning the "hit" that range will take in cold weather: Most other EVs are seeing a 13%-20% loss in range. So that, in a worst-case scenario, would dock your 400 mile range to 320 and your 600 mile range to 480.
I thought I'd read somewhere that they would leverage the excess solar capacity solar to keep the batteries within an acceptable temperature range. Does anyone else remember seeing that?
I am worried about the same thing, but in hot weather. This car's design has a large greenhouse effect so it would be hot inside while either parked or running. An electric air conditioning compressor can knock off a similar percentage of energy, thus range.
@OceanDragon Really, though, AC doesn't create as much of a drain as does heating. And I wasn't talking about "drain" - I was talking about the chemical behavior of lithium ion batteries - they don't take as much charge and they deplete more quickly when they are cold. During the summer my Clarity PHEV has an EV range of 47 miles and, right now, a full charge will bring it to only 38 or so.
Plus Aptera has an automatic flow-through ventilation system that will keep the interior at the ambient temperature when parked in the sun on a hot day.
Sense the Aptera is so efficient driving, heating will take a much bigger % of the energy.
@David Marlow I don't see why - unless you mean comparatively: A heating system is a heating system - it's going to use the amount of power it uses. Aptera wants to use a heat pump system because it will use less power than the resistance heat unit currently in the prototype. And heated seats and steering wheel require less power and reduce the need to heat the entire cabin with forced hot air.
The Aptera's body shell is, essentially, two layers of plastic with foam between them: In that way it's very similar to common cooler and should have better insulative properties than a more thermally-conductive metal body.
Yes the composite body will have a good R factor, but the amount of window area compared to interior volume will be the problem. Although the black looks good, I will be getting the white, just for the heat reflectivity/absorption coefficient.
@OceanDragon General Motors did a heat to color test years ago in the desert testing location in Arizona - after the 1st 15 minutes the exterior color of the car (be it white or black) made no difference. The interior color (black interior was far worse), are the windows tinted, is the front windscreen covered were the big factors. I will got a lighter interior and really want a green colored Green tech car.
@OceanDragon No matter which body color you select, the top surface will be either black or glass. Only the sides, belly and back of the tail show the body color...
I am going with the 400 mile option - my commute is 14 miles daily round trip, and as I live the Phoenix area (aka The Valley of the Sun) I will likely never plug it in unless I go on a weekend trip. Charging locations are continued to be built out be it Tesla, Electrify America, et al... We also have a minivan (which will likely be replaced by a small SUVe in the future and a restored 2001 Blazer for offroad and camping