This is very exciting stuff. My perception is that the Aptera design is less dependent on battery breakthroughs, because all the specs already exceed the norms. I'm ready for my first Aptera with whatever 40kWh battery pack the engineers want to put in there! Battery life is always a concern, but if the cell quality is good, and the BMS is doing it's job, I feel like we're in good shape. To me, the thing to avoid is any unnecessary redesign that delays the release of the product.
The structural battery pack with tabless 4680er DBE-cells is Tesla's cutting edge technology and essential for their future - not very likely that tesla shares this stuff with a competitor in the next few years. In addition, this technology (product AND production technology) is still under development at tesla and the integration of a structural pack would cause a major redesign of Apteras current body-architecture. And that - for shure - would cause a delay for the first customer deliveries.
Aptera's efficiency also extends its battery life, where the primary factors are high temperature, high current, & depth of discharge. Aptera uses 60% less current to drive, & therefore also has 60% less depth of discharge. It also has about 30% less charging current from regen:
I was surprised to realize my EV has more peak charge current during strong regen braking (72kW), than many DC rapid chargers (50kW). Aptera is about 30% lighter, so it will have about 30% less regen current under the same deceleration.
@kiteboarder Don't forget, though, that in-wheel motors regenerate more efficiently - and Aptera will have two or three of them...
I did some digging: All ChaDeMo chargers in the US run at 50 kW and, up until 2015, so did CCS units. Since 2015, however, the average CCS charger runs at 120 kW with newer units running at up to 350 kW.
That said, Greenlots is rolling-out an Efacec two-box unit that includes a DC tower with 50 kW CCS and ChaDeMo (one or the other - both can't be used at the same time) and a second tower with two J1772 Level 2 connectors. A McDonald's about 150 miles from here just installed one and is offering free access to customers - when it functions...
Good point about more efficient regen. The number of motor/generators doesn't make much difference though. It's the same total. For example 60kW of braking force would take 20kW from each of 3 motor/generators, or 30kW from each of 2 motor/generators.
Right about the average NEW charger, but there are many older 50kW chargers still in use. Some of the newest are only 25kW, where power supply is low, & at Harley dealers.
The point for this subject line is that with adequate cooling, any battery in an Aptera should age better than the same battery in any other EV, due to shallower discharge & lower current, including it's 50kW DC limit.
@kiteboarder As I understand it, those HD chargers are "special" units designed specifically to charge the LiveWire. 25 kW isn't within the current CCS standard, which runs from 50 - 350 kW.
@kiteboarder Yes, I know - that's what shows up on every HD dealership I've seen on PlugShare, too. But the actual CCS standard has a bottom wattage of 50 kW - which is why I wrote that the HD units are "special"...
Chris and Steve said the 2170 battery. Supplier unknown.
This is very exciting stuff. My perception is that the Aptera design is less dependent on battery breakthroughs, because all the specs already exceed the norms. I'm ready for my first Aptera with whatever 40kWh battery pack the engineers want to put in there! Battery life is always a concern, but if the cell quality is good, and the BMS is doing it's job, I feel like we're in good shape. To me, the thing to avoid is any unnecessary redesign that delays the release of the product.
The structural battery pack with tabless 4680er DBE-cells is Tesla's cutting edge technology and essential for their future - not very likely that tesla shares this stuff with a competitor in the next few years. In addition, this technology (product AND production technology) is still under development at tesla and the integration of a structural pack would cause a major redesign of Apteras current body-architecture. And that - for shure - would cause a delay for the first customer deliveries.
100% agree with Ken Potter.
Aptera's efficiency also extends its battery life, where the primary factors are high temperature, high current, & depth of discharge. Aptera uses 60% less current to drive, & therefore also has 60% less depth of discharge. It also has about 30% less charging current from regen:
I was surprised to realize my EV has more peak charge current during strong regen braking (72kW), than many DC rapid chargers (50kW). Aptera is about 30% lighter, so it will have about 30% less regen current under the same deceleration.
@kiteboarder Don't forget, though, that in-wheel motors regenerate more efficiently - and Aptera will have two or three of them...
I did some digging: All ChaDeMo chargers in the US run at 50 kW and, up until 2015, so did CCS units. Since 2015, however, the average CCS charger runs at 120 kW with newer units running at up to 350 kW.
That said, Greenlots is rolling-out an Efacec two-box unit that includes a DC tower with 50 kW CCS and ChaDeMo (one or the other - both can't be used at the same time) and a second tower with two J1772 Level 2 connectors. A McDonald's about 150 miles from here just installed one and is offering free access to customers - when it functions...
Good point about more efficient regen. The number of motor/generators doesn't make much difference though. It's the same total. For example 60kW of braking force would take 20kW from each of 3 motor/generators, or 30kW from each of 2 motor/generators.
Right about the average NEW charger, but there are many older 50kW chargers still in use. Some of the newest are only 25kW, where power supply is low, & at Harley dealers.
The point for this subject line is that with adequate cooling, any battery in an Aptera should age better than the same battery in any other EV, due to shallower discharge & lower current, including it's 50kW DC limit.
@kiteboarder As I understand it, those HD chargers are "special" units designed specifically to charge the LiveWire. 25 kW isn't within the current CCS standard, which runs from 50 - 350 kW.
@Kerbe #12705 My friend's local Harley dealer is listed as 25kW CCS on ChargePoint.
@kiteboarder Yes, I know - that's what shows up on every HD dealership I've seen on PlugShare, too. But the actual CCS standard has a bottom wattage of 50 kW - which is why I wrote that the HD units are "special"...