I agree with kiteboarder, Aptera has the range as well as range options. I would like to know more about Aptera's battery thermal management of both heating and cooling mainly for battery longevity. I don't want to be stuck with a problem like many early Nissan Leaf's owners. Nissan isn't too supportive about many of the batteries which are reaching premature SOC issues.
Sadly true. I've had my Leaf for about 10 years and am into the declining life of the second battery pack. Fortunately, the first one was replaced free of charge (no pun intended) in a class action suit in which I was somehow included. As I watch its declining range, I hope it can hold out till I get my Aptera.
@dtmattijetz You would think Nissan would have learned from their design mistakes. They only recently put in an active air cooled fan in their last generation battery. Otherwise they have always had just a passive system which used radiant cooling of the battery steel box by the air flow over it. I think most car designers have learned from this. Besides now having better batteries, I hope that Aptera puts an active liquid cooled system like most modern EV's. But remember that Aptera is not a car. Most electric motorcycles have skimped on thermoregulation because of size and weight constraints. Even the Harley-Davidson LiveWire has only a passive air cooled battery. It's motor and controller are active liquid cooled. Even the popular Zero Motorcycle only have air-cooled batteries. So I am only hoping that Aptera breaks away from the motorcycle trend (in which it is classifed) and goes with active thermoregulation of the battery, motor and controller. Depending upon the size of the inverter and DC charger, these may also need to be considered. My concern is that the Aptera body has only limited surface area to use as a cooling surface without heating the inside cabin space as well.
@dtmattijetz Out of coincidence, this just was just came out yesterday. It discusses the poor passive air cooling of the Leaf battery pack and what happens under moderate use. So unless the active liquid cooled Aptera has the capacity to really cool the battery pack, we might experience something similar.
This is an interesting topic. Tesla recently put a heat pump on some of their cars and Bjorn Nyland , a well known EV tester, has just noted that the older Model 3 without the heat pump heating, experienced LESS “cold-gate” effect (extremely slow cold charging) than the latest Model 3 with the heat pump. Apparently the newer Model 3 alternately shuts down the charging activity to warm up the battery with the Heat Pump, i.e. Taking turns charging and warming. The measured effect of this was extremely low charging rates in about 10 degrees C conditions.
Yes, although resistance heat in the passenger compartment takes a lot of juice, apparently the resistance heating of a battery pack (Tesla’s first option) did not interfere with charging as much as a heat pump
Sounds to good to be true...
... & Aptera doesn't need any "more range" than it already has...
I agree with kiteboarder, Aptera has the range as well as range options. I would like to know more about Aptera's battery thermal management of both heating and cooling mainly for battery longevity. I don't want to be stuck with a problem like many early Nissan Leaf's owners. Nissan isn't too supportive about many of the batteries which are reaching premature SOC issues.
Sadly true. I've had my Leaf for about 10 years and am into the declining life of the second battery pack. Fortunately, the first one was replaced free of charge (no pun intended) in a class action suit in which I was somehow included. As I watch its declining range, I hope it can hold out till I get my Aptera.
@dtmattijetz You would think Nissan would have learned from their design mistakes. They only recently put in an active air cooled fan in their last generation battery. Otherwise they have always had just a passive system which used radiant cooling of the battery steel box by the air flow over it. I think most car designers have learned from this. Besides now having better batteries, I hope that Aptera puts an active liquid cooled system like most modern EV's. But remember that Aptera is not a car. Most electric motorcycles have skimped on thermoregulation because of size and weight constraints. Even the Harley-Davidson LiveWire has only a passive air cooled battery. It's motor and controller are active liquid cooled. Even the popular Zero Motorcycle only have air-cooled batteries. So I am only hoping that Aptera breaks away from the motorcycle trend (in which it is classifed) and goes with active thermoregulation of the battery, motor and controller. Depending upon the size of the inverter and DC charger, these may also need to be considered. My concern is that the Aptera body has only limited surface area to use as a cooling surface without heating the inside cabin space as well.
@dtmattijetz Out of coincidence, this just was just came out yesterday. It discusses the poor passive air cooling of the Leaf battery pack and what happens under moderate use. So unless the active liquid cooled Aptera has the capacity to really cool the battery pack, we might experience something similar.
https://insideevs.com/news/482245/nissan-leaf-repair-liquid-cooling-benefits/
Even a 1st-gen Leaf battery would last longer in an Aptera, since:
- It will be either liquid-cooled or convection-cooled (Leaf is UN-cooled, in a heat-trapping case).
- It will have shallower depth of discharge, since it uses 60% less kWh per mile.
- It will have lower current flow, since it takes 60% less current to drive.
- It will have less regen current, since it's about 30% lighter, requiring less braking energy.
So the just put an electric heater in they battery.
This is an interesting topic. Tesla recently put a heat pump on some of their cars and Bjorn Nyland , a well known EV tester, has just noted that the older Model 3 without the heat pump heating, experienced LESS “cold-gate” effect (extremely slow cold charging) than the latest Model 3 with the heat pump. Apparently the newer Model 3 alternately shuts down the charging activity to warm up the battery with the Heat Pump, i.e. Taking turns charging and warming. The measured effect of this was extremely low charging rates in about 10 degrees C conditions.
Yes, although resistance heat in the passenger compartment takes a lot of juice, apparently the resistance heating of a battery pack (Tesla’s first option) did not interfere with charging as much as a heat pump