I'm missing vital information on whether or not Aptera will be allowed on the road here and also I'm not sure what the price here will be for the paradigm model, after adding sales tax, import tax, VAT etc. Aptera says I can pre-order but I haven't had the questions above answered yet. Does anyone here have info on this?
I am also from the Netherlands, following Aptera since the first round. Your estimate seems realistic. Aptera seems to have an homologation expert to make sure a European type approval seems to be no problem. Most type approvals for Europe go through the Dutch RDW. I am Still not sure about the Aptera vehicle class and if it is allowed to have more than 2 meters width. If they can announce European type approval you should be able to order and also have the certainty you can get it registered in the Netherlands.
I've contacted the RDW, tax services and customs yesterday. RDW told me they follow European legislation and thus getting a certificate of conformance (COC) is what should be aimed for. I emailed their technical department to understand what needs to happen for that and indicated those items in which Aptera doesn't match legislation (dimensions). I'm just curious about how this works and if maybe there are road blocks I can somehow help solve.
Aptera responded on facebook that we can get our preorder fee back if we cancel. So I'm going to preorder anyway, even though it is currently not yet 100% clear if Aptera will ever be allowed to hit the road here.
Feel welcome to find me on facebook Matthijs if you'd also enjoy staying in contact concerning this topic. My full name is Sies Stadhouders.
I preordered one for Breda, Netherlands, if having a European legislation and a certificate of conformance (COC) .
Yes, also from The Netherlands and I was ready to pre-order, but realised the width was over 2,20m. That's wider than a Lamborghini! It won't be great for our tight cities, so I decided to hold off on a reservation.
A bit of a shame, as a narrower vehicle would've been a great commuter and business visits car.
It worries me a bit as well. Although I almost never take my car into inner cities, I kind of like the extra space you have when you drive a small car. Also, it's easy to see where the vehicle ends and there's no problem getting out of the car in a tight spot, so practically it might not be such a big deal.
Standard parking spaces in The Netherlands are 2,40 m wide (old norm), and currently 2,50m wide. However, for parallel parking it is still common to use a 2,00m wide parking bay. That means you always park partly on the road. And in parking spaces at clients I visit (garage or outside) you have 17 to 27 cm's to open the doors and get in and out of the car (although there probably is some space in the adjacent bay as well).
I think it would annoy me.
The one I am worried about is that the European vehicle class for the Aptera is L5e. Everywhere I search in the official documentation it comes back that an L5e vehicle can not be wider than 2 meters. I hope Aptera's homologation expert can answer this question. If it can pass the RDW and European type approval it can be sold and registered anywhere in Europe.
I tried to reach Aptera via email, at least to let them aware about the size issue. Maybe tomorrow during the tech Q&A they will tell something more.
I pre-ordered last monday with no. (10)1720. 100Kw, AWD, full solar, safety pilot, enhanced audio. But surprised that the Paradign models were already sold out but that's ok. Just wait a bit longer. did that before, haha. Waited 4 years on my first Model S untill final delivery in 2013.
Of course I knew the width, but we'll see how that works out. I don't expect too many problems with that. Just hope it gets EU approval but I really don't see why it should not.
So far it will not be legal in Europe. 3 wheels vehicles can’t be wider than 2m and longer than 4m.
@devix195 That would be a HUGE disappointment. However, the EU being a very large potential market, combined with the high ambitions of the EU with regard to CO2 reduction, I can hardly imagine that this issue will not be solved.
General rule for all "L" vehicles (in EU) are max length 4.0 m and width 2.0. m. So Aptera need major redesign to fit, and by that reduce the low drag, interior space etc. Would it not be possible to have twin mounted narrow wheel(s) at rear? I can not find any minimum trackwidth in the EU regulations. Anyone knows? Use two wheels like the ones on BMW i3, 155/70, and a very short rear axel, say 250 mm, with a central swing arm instaed of the planned double outer. The drag will increase a bit, but with the long areodynamic fairings around the rear twin wheel, I hope not too much. Then the Aptera could be a normal car class M1. A lot more regulation to tick off, but is not possible? The crash requirement is by regulations very low, you can still sell a car with only one or zero Euro NCAP stars in EU, sure normally a car with one star noneone will buy.
It will not be easy to get Aptera type certified in L cat then already in the first paragrapgh, two of three dimensions are too big. A M1 type more likely, but then then missing the fourth wheel. But there is possible even a bigger problem, 2022 the new safety regulation is implemted, EU 2018/0145. Most new items are related to advance safety system, no issue. But a big focus on pedestrain safety, follow UN no. 127. Mandatory in EU to follow for a M1 vehicle. The main problem is outrigged front wheels, difficult to see how they can conform to the safety regulation. e.g the linkarms has no protection / deformation zones to protect pedestrain. So possible a M1 route will not be possible. If not the front wheels are moved into the the main body, but then it is a completley new veichle. The other route is to shrink Aptera to fit into the "L" box, 4000x2000x2500 (LxWxH).
I think the only way is to reduce size, not only for regulations, but for practicality too. M1 is a mess with safety certifications and require at least 450mm distance between the wheels.
A saw and a welder will fix the 200x400 cm issue ;)... No joke this is a serious flaw and I can't figure out how a company would design a car without checking the basic rules from around the major markets... Sorry but they won't get any order from me, the car doesn't even fit in my garage.
In the future, they will have a 4 wheel car that may be much more suitable for your needs. It is clear that the width is performance driven, and that there is sufficient market for this design to get the company to the place where they can deliver designs more suitable for Europe in the future. I don't think they are willing to compromise on safety or performance this time, but they are very aware that this first vehicle is niche market.
This is my own estimate. If anyone has information if this estimate makes sense, please let me know.
This is a concern, but the width was driven by the the aerodynamic numbers and the stability required for the three wheel design. The door opens upward, so only around 16 cm clearance is needed to open the doors.
I live in Denmark but if it is approved in EU then it should be ok in others EU contries ? The wide is more than a Tesla S incl. mirrors, that is a lot i parkplaces but not on the road.
Waiting for Tesla round....
I don't know the answer to your question, but I do know that Aptera has European agents working a homologation and that they already have preorders from the Netherlands, including from Breda. I think we will just have to see how this plays out.
Anybody has a view on the estimated cost of importation to the Netherlands by Siesstad? So the $29900 version translates into 31000 EUR for Europeans. If that is reasonable, then it should be a rough estimate for all EU countries IMO. I live in Greece.
I believe the Netherlands is the worst case scenario. In other countries there is less vat. But the eu tax should be similar.
Yes, VAT is different in every European country and for every class of goods. In Greece it should be about 24% for cars which are considered luxury goods. I asked a car dealer today and he told me that if any EU country gets license to import the vehicle, then I can acquire it through that country. He said there are incentives for buying an EV including exemption from various import taxes and monetary bonuses. The discount may be up to €5000. These are not bad at all. Now I hope some European homologologist overcomes the dimension hurdle.
I am not sure if a L5e vehicle will be able to receive bonuses like cars registered. I think best bet would be to look at eu countries with the lowest vat like Luxembourg. All the other import taxes are based on vehicle specific properties. For example for electric cars there is no 43% extra tax or co2 tax.
Please which are the L5e vehicles. I have no ideas about cars. Only beginning to learn.
I spoke to a dealer specialized in importing American cars to the Netherlands that he used to import them via Germany, after getting a European license there.
L5e would be the European vehicle class for a Aptera. You can Google L5e and read about all the different types of vehicle classes.
I misread the question, and as a Denisovan , I found it prejudicial .