In the video, Chris talked about further aerodynamic improvements. It will be interesting to see if the changes can be visibly discerned in the Sol version. Eager to see that. A bit of drag coefficient limbo going here. "How low can you go?" Loving that.
Do you suppose that is "Improve" the drag coefficient above what they had said, OR "Get Closer" to the theoretical computer model numbers, that have been used to date?
I would like to think it is a further improvement. Those aerodynamics engineers they have on staff need to be keeping busy doing something. Looking forward to seeing in due course.
I think they are just naming their prototypes after their advertised exterior color schemes. The first, Noir, is black. The Sol I expect to be white. Probably a silver Luna third.
While continuous improvement is important, as long as it doesn't slow the production schedule. I would think that most of us would just like to get our hands on one as is.
The first Model can't be 100% perfect. I bet more than 80% of us just want to start driving. (Now that I said it.... I'm not in that 80%... Yes, I know, I just contradicted myself. )
Please note:
I think they are trying their best to incorporate forum content as a direct guide.
I also believe that our conversations (guidance) has proven too much for the previous beta prototype and maintain the promised mileage. That we all agreed to when we placed our orders.
All in all:
I understand the delays. I hope Aptera can stay on the original timeline ( Production: Late 2021)
I do honestly believe the forum wants production and can live with an (hypothetically) inferror car for now. knowing it's the best right now. (We know production will provide large sums of $$$$ for Aptera... allowing them to design and prototype the perfect (3/4 wheeler a lot sooner. As opposed to a shoestring budget for 1+ more years. and no "happy customers")
I Believe the second or third model year should be better in some respects.
We all want to see you succeed. We all want our cars too. Please start making them.
Updates are good. I too am a little worried about the timelines. I think the next milestone was to have 2 more prototypes completed by the end of this month. Anyone know how close they are to this?
I'm super impressed with Chris and team, and I think they're laser focused. I'd love to help them with DFx (Design for Manufacturability, Design for Serviceability, etc...) I'd work for free or a discount on an Aptera.
I'd not worry too much about the timeline. They know you have to crawl first, walk later, then run. The first model CAN'T incorporate all our wishes, or it would never get launched. Yes, some of our ideas will increase their profits and boost customer engagement and satisfaction, but those can be rolled out on a development roadmap spanning years. I think that's what they're doing from the feedback here: populating some potential waypoints for development roadmaps for the next few generations.
This development stuff is HARD. I do it in medical devices & processes, and cars are like 10x harder in some ways (easier in others though).
Remember, a Model 3 reservation was $1000.00 and then an additional $2500 to place the order - which they didn't start filling for nearly two years after opening reservations.
We are just about to enter Q2 of 2021 with only one prototype built and two more in various stages of assembly: To believe that production will begin within nine months is wishful - if not magical - thinking. Aptera can, literally, hand-build one Paradigm and deliver it to claim they've begun production within their original timeline, but hundreds of vehicles rolling out of a just-bought, unequipped facility? Unlikely. I'm thinking 2024 before a larger-scale production ramp-up - and I'm comfortable with that.
UPDATE: We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
Only reason I found it was because I am subscribed to their YouTube channel and it popped up there.
Interestingly their chat with the folks at Elaphe a few weeks ago is not there but I got the email linking to it.
Not very consistent about how they post things, it seems. That will probably settle down with a little more time.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
@Kerbe #12705 Covid turned pandemic in March 2020. All the Nov/Dec 2020 info is post Covid, so proceeding forward, and production should be taking Covid into account.
@anash I meant to imply that those dates and milestones predated the end of the year: A great deal of their online info is outdated - but the internet is forever and it's usually easier to find the old info than it is anything more recent.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
@pistonboy We heard today that suppliers from several states and countries are providing parts for Aptera. Final Assembly will happen in the San Diego main facility with electrical done in a smaller San Diego facility.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
I have heard multiple times, that paint shops are very expensive for auto manufacturers. It is very difficult to get a finish that is guaranteed to be free of particles.
Could Aptera's plan be to use a less expensive (and less perfect) paint shop but get the particle free finish by using a clear wrap that has either a gloss or satin finish? This may be an easier and less expensive way of getting that perfect finish.
The only painting experience I have is with a spray can. I would like to hear your ideas on the subject. Thanks.
@pistonboy We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
As far as I understand it, until the noir prototype, Aptera had only computer models. Just as in the Formula One racing, computer models and wind tunnel test do not always match reality, so aerodynamic improvements and all other improvements coming from reality testing are inevitable.
Excited to see the SOL version turn into reality.
In the video, Chris talked about further aerodynamic improvements. It will be interesting to see if the changes can be visibly discerned in the Sol version. Eager to see that. A bit of drag coefficient limbo going here. "How low can you go?" Loving that.
Do you suppose that is "Improve" the drag coefficient above what they had said, OR "Get Closer" to the theoretical computer model numbers, that have been used to date?
I would like to think it is a further improvement. Those aerodynamics engineers they have on staff need to be keeping busy doing something. Looking forward to seeing in due course.
@Max Conrad
Welcome back, I thought you had given up 😴
What is the SOL version?
I think they are just naming their prototypes after their advertised exterior color schemes. The first, Noir, is black. The Sol I expect to be white. Probably a silver Luna third.
While continuous improvement is important, as long as it doesn't slow the production schedule. I would think that most of us would just like to get our hands on one as is.
I like monthly updates!
The first Model can't be 100% perfect. I bet more than 80% of us just want to start driving. (Now that I said it.... I'm not in that 80%... Yes, I know, I just contradicted myself. )
Please note:
I think they are trying their best to incorporate forum content as a direct guide.
I also believe that our conversations (guidance) has proven too much for the previous beta prototype and maintain the promised mileage. That we all agreed to when we placed our orders.
All in all:
I understand the delays. I hope Aptera can stay on the original timeline ( Production: Late 2021)
I do honestly believe the forum wants production and can live with an (hypothetically) inferror car for now. knowing it's the best right now. (We know production will provide large sums of $$$$ for Aptera... allowing them to design and prototype the perfect (3/4 wheeler a lot sooner. As opposed to a shoestring budget for 1+ more years. and no "happy customers")
I Believe the second or third model year should be better in some respects.
We all want to see you succeed. We all want our cars too. Please start making them.
Accepting delivery timeline is important to me.
Updates are good. I too am a little worried about the timelines. I think the next milestone was to have 2 more prototypes completed by the end of this month. Anyone know how close they are to this?
I'm super impressed with Chris and team, and I think they're laser focused. I'd love to help them with DFx (Design for Manufacturability, Design for Serviceability, etc...) I'd work for free or a discount on an Aptera.
I'd not worry too much about the timeline. They know you have to crawl first, walk later, then run. The first model CAN'T incorporate all our wishes, or it would never get launched. Yes, some of our ideas will increase their profits and boost customer engagement and satisfaction, but those can be rolled out on a development roadmap spanning years. I think that's what they're doing from the feedback here: populating some potential waypoints for development roadmaps for the next few generations.
This development stuff is HARD. I do it in medical devices & processes, and cars are like 10x harder in some ways (easier in others though).
Remember, a Model 3 reservation was $1000.00 and then an additional $2500 to place the order - which they didn't start filling for nearly two years after opening reservations.
We are just about to enter Q2 of 2021 with only one prototype built and two more in various stages of assembly: To believe that production will begin within nine months is wishful - if not magical - thinking. Aptera can, literally, hand-build one Paradigm and deliver it to claim they've begun production within their original timeline, but hundreds of vehicles rolling out of a just-bought, unequipped facility? Unlikely. I'm thinking 2024 before a larger-scale production ramp-up - and I'm comfortable with that.
UPDATE: We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
Aptera has not informed me of this video. I am surprised.
Have other people been informed of these videos?
Only reason I found it was because I am subscribed to their YouTube channel and it popped up there. Interestingly their chat with the folks at Elaphe a few weeks ago is not there but I got the email linking to it. Not very consistent about how they post things, it seems. That will probably settle down with a little more time.
@pistonboy I received a YouTube notification - just like @jesthorbjorn - and then also received a notification on Facebook.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
@anash Nov/Dec 2020: Pre-COVID...
@Kerbe #12705 Covid turned pandemic in March 2020. All the Nov/Dec 2020 info is post Covid, so proceeding forward, and production should be taking Covid into account.
@anash I meant to imply that those dates and milestones predated the end of the year: A great deal of their online info is outdated - but the internet is forever and it's usually easier to find the old info than it is anything more recent.
I may need to start a new thread, but I wonder what the "Milestones" are that Aptera needs to meet to produce "any" vehicles before the end of the year.
I am very hopeful, but skeptical of the "Milestones" that Aptera gave in Nov/Dec 2020(?).
There just seems SO much to be done. For instance, what sort of timeline would there be for "Road worthy" approval from Federal (NHTSA?) and State, let alone Provincial (Canada) Govt Departments. I would think that takes time for approval, as well, as needing enough production vehicle to take part in "Crash tests".
Hand building prototype 2, in March 2021, does not give me a good feeling about production line models being created by end of 2021.
Just curious what Milestones need to be seen , say on a monthly basis, to make ALL this happen.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
@pistonboy We heard today that suppliers from several states and countries are providing parts for Aptera. Final Assembly will happen in the San Diego main facility with electrical done in a smaller San Diego facility.
It sounds like they are avoiding the business unfriendly California regulators. (I live in LA county, California). Perhaps everything will be done in Reno, Nevada and only the electrical done in San Diego. This is a wise move.
I have heard multiple times, that paint shops are very expensive for auto manufacturers. It is very difficult to get a finish that is guaranteed to be free of particles.
Could Aptera's plan be to use a less expensive (and less perfect) paint shop but get the particle free finish by using a clear wrap that has either a gloss or satin finish? This may be an easier and less expensive way of getting that perfect finish.
The only painting experience I have is with a spray can. I would like to hear your ideas on the subject. Thanks.
@pistonboy We learned today that Aptera will NOT be painting any of the production vehicles - but they are using paint as an quicker way to prepare the SOL prototype.
As far as I understand it, until the noir prototype, Aptera had only computer models. Just as in the Formula One racing, computer models and wind tunnel test do not always match reality, so aerodynamic improvements and all other improvements coming from reality testing are inevitable.