Nathan Armstrong said airbag companies will not engage with a small startup company (except Tacata). What does this mean? Does this mean they simply will not sell to a small company? Why? Apparently this forces Aptera to resort to seatbelt airbags which are only for cushioning the force of the seatbelt and does not protect the person's head from hitting the steering wheel. Does this mean the steering wheel has a place inside it to hold an airbag but it will be emply? Will I be able to get an airbag retrofitted when airbag companies finally start selling airbags to Aptera?
@pistonboy WHOA, there, cowboy! Don't get all riled up about this! From what we know, decisions about many, many aspects of Aptera have yet to made, let-alone finalized! Sandy Munro is a BIG proponent of seatbelt airbags because they don't injure the occupants and they don't destroy the dashboard, seats, steering wheel, roof liner or wherever else they're mounted when they deploy. Think about it: Would you rather have the middle of the steering wheel explode into your face or would you rather have a full-torso airbag deploy AWAY from your body to protect you? They're proven to work - they just haven't been adopted by any of the major automotive companies.
Remember, too, that Aptera is not required to have ANY airbags: Whatever it ends up having will be because the engineers are focusing on occupant safety. I have to hope that they won't make pointless or useless decisions and will, eventually, decide upon the best possible system.
At this point in time there is only one rolling Aptera - with two more being planned: These are early prototypes so nearly everything about them is up for grabs, design-wise. The company has decided upon certain aspects (in-wheel motors from Elaphe, for example) of the design and will use the prototypes to create system integration and to determine manufacturability.
I can personally vouch for this. After an accident my car was a write=off due to all the airbags that deployed. Cost of refitting airbags was more than the cars worth. Secondly I have a vw emblem scar on my forearm where the steering wheel airbag hit my arm. Thirdly the exposing thrown my arm back with such force I had to get an operation to reattach amusle torn in the rotator cuff.
The AmSafe system can protect the occupant's head with a "tab" that inflates from the belt upwards in front of the face. It is designed for retrofit in general aviation airplanes. For the Aptera, the difficulty, I would think, is in the bespoke design of instrument panel and steering wheel mounting systems. Airbag companies probably couldn't reasonably design specific inflator and airbag envelop shape and so forth for a low volume Aptera at a cost we could afford.
Not to say I am particularly enamored with the AmSafe system. If the belt mounted airbag is bulky and uncomfortable I will be replacing it with a plain old shoulder harness.
I'd be OK with shoulder strap mounted airbags. Don't forget that airbags have caused the largest global recall ever. They have killed people and still cause serious injuries every day as pointed out by Kerbe #12705.
I'd be okay with strap-airbags too, if they're as safe. For that matter I'd be okay with "just" a 5-point harness, if THAT proves just as safe, in the upcoming composite sandwich monocoque crash tests. A side impact test needs to be right on the left door, because a t-boning truck may miss the front wheel. The door's curvature makes it strong AND further from the driver for better protection.
Show me the dummies! 🙂
Has it been stated that AmSafe is the system to be used?
Even if Aptera has to pay to have the steering wheel airbag custom designed, they should do it and not sell any vehicles without it. Critics of the Aptera claim it is unsafe and it looks unsafe to people. They will jump on the fact it has no steering wheel airbag as proof of it being unsafe. Also, the media will pounce on that fact, making people believe it is unsafe. The media are equal opportunity opportunist: they will exploit anyone. Aptera will be be discredited from the beginning. First impressions are the only impressions people have. Aptera will be a short lived company.
Don't know. Rumors and speculation at this point. I would strongly prefer an airbag in the steering wheel.
@Lance from Jerome Having seen too many people with broken noses, black eyes and other facial damage CAUSED by steering-wheel airbags, I'm pretty certain I'd like to see an alternative!
That's why I'm sort of ambivalent to the belt mounted airbag. Easy to remove and replace with a regular belt. Which is the configuration I prefer, no airbag at all.
I wonder if there is a chance of the seatbelt mounted airbag moving upward but catching under my chin and throwing my head back. What would that do to the neck? Break it? These things move with explosive speed.
@pistonboy They shoot FORWARD and then expand - they don't shoot "up and out". They create a cushion between the occupant and whatever is in front of them: The steering wheel, the dashboard, the windshield, an elk...
Steering wheel airbags are always oriented in the correct direction. Seatbelts can sometimes become twisted or may not be oriented exactly correctly, even though I am sure manufacturers make efforts to avoid this. Suppose a seatbelt, for whatever reason, was twisted and facing towards the driver. There would be an explosion confined between the belt and my body, and the "going up" part would go down. I fear what it would do to my rib cage and my groin. Maybe this is the reason major auto manufacturers do not use them.
@pistonboy The airbags are mounted on the shoulder-belt section, not on waist-belt, and they have rigid backs. The only way to put one on incorrectly would be to cut it from the vehicle, reverse it to face the occupant, and then duct tape it into place. You can claim as many different unlikely scenarios as you want: Your fears aren't going to make them any less safe or effective to use - even if the passenger is a unicorn.
Takata will almost certainly have worked out all their past issues by the time Aptera is available.
I'm not the only person who won't buy an Aptera unless it has the same or better safety than what I drive now:
Top car safety rating. Period.
That may or may not require the same front-wheel-as-crumple-zone, multi-stage airbags (any brand) in the steering wheel, A-pillar, side curtain, shoulder & left leg, active seatbelts & active headrests. It is possible that the revolutionary composite monocoque & seatbelt airbags will suffice.
@kiteboarder Have you watched the video with Aptera engineer Nathan Armstrong? https://youtu.be/IJ5sU2r-xxw
@Kerbe #12705 Yes, & I copied that link to several other threads here. I wonder why you ask, since it doesn't alter my choice, or anyone else's: We don't want to downgrade to lower safety. Period.
Aptera MAY have that or even more, but we're awaiting testimony at least, if not test results.
@kiteboarder I asked because he specifically addressed all the safety points that your comment raised and it sounded as if you were questioning whether or not they were being addressed.
The real answer is to see these seatbelt airbags in person. They will be in the display models (I assume).
@Kerbe #12705 Right: We don't want to downgrade to lower safety. Period.
Aptera MAY have that or even more, but we're awaiting testimony at least, if not test results.
Okay, line 190 of Aptera's FAQ Spreadsheet says "We will not know Aptera's actual rating until we pass a production vehicle through the full safety test. But we are designing to exceed all passenger car standards...Aptera also makes use of today’s best forward and side airbag systems in case of an accident."
@kiteboarder "best" is a relative term - so who's to say that restraint-mounted airbags aren't the best? The FAQ is pretty-much subject to change with no notice...
Do central-planning nannies require “autocycles” to have airbags or even seatbelts with fines enforced at police gunpoint? If not, I want to disable the damn buzzer & remove the airbags! That’s “repaired”!