In this video, the narrator says Munro and Associates have evaluated Aptera full scale production facilities and said only 23 people will be needed to make 10,000 units per year. This is absolutely amazing. I assume that does not include inventory people, office people, etc.
I agree Dan. Most do not see the intensive design, production, machining, and assembly of each of the major components. They have basically farmed out the major portion of the tuning and design of the most important parts. The car would be nothing if it didn't have batteries, motor, controller, inverter, DC-DC converter, charger, instrumentation, front and rear suspension subframes. I think most of those are being made by outside vendors. (correct me if I am wrong, because I am only speculating) But that is also a possible obstacle in the assembly chain and success of Aptera. If one or two of those major components gets a delay, shortage of components, labor force issues, or international trade issues, then production stops. That is why most major manufacturers try to make as much as possible themselves. This parallels modern bike manufacturing....most US company just design and assemble using already made components....then charge US production prices.
Assuming 10,000 vehicles, 50 weeks, and 23 people, that comes out to 1.7 vehicles per person per day.
In the below video, they say the Sol model is being built in Reno, NV and will soon come to San Diego to have its electrical done. Perhaps all assembly is being done in Reno, than brought to San Diego for electrical, fluids, charging, and final check out.
Perhaps all electrical components and cabling is installed in Reno, just not the battery.
It is so much fun speculating when you don't have to actually do the work.
@pistonboy In another video Chris Anthony clarified that the BODIES are build in Nevada and that the electrical systems are assembled at a smaller Aptera location in San Diego. The new, large San Diego facility will be used to assemble this "kit of parts" into a finished vehicle.
They will build the composite body in-house. The CTO said this week that they are looking at a faster curing epoxy resin so they can make a body panel every 10 minutes in each form (made from a 3D printer plug). The front and rear Al subframes are contracted out. They are buying battery cells and building their own battery boxes. They showed a movie of their machine to wire up the cells last fall. They designed their own charge controller, although presumably contracted out circuit board construction. They are using 3D printing for forms and small plastic parts and light covers. The in-wheel motors and controllers are built by Elaphe, presumably at their production facility in China. They are buying the touchscreen for most user controls and using the Crank Software UI framework. They are designing their own battery and motor temperature control systems and skin radiators. Charging systems both in and out seems to still be in flux. I think they “borrowed” a lot from Tesla here and in the steering collumn/controls. Not sure if they are building their own seats/interiors or they contracted that out. They designed their own custom lightweight wheels with production presumably contracted out. The braking system is probably a mix of custom and off-the-shelf components. They buy the solar cells, but do the rest of the solar work in house. I wonder if they have a machine to wire up the solar cells like the battery.
I’m a bit extra skeptical of the Aptera Reboot channel’s reporting. Too much of an obvious coattail scavenger with probable biases to suit. I haven’t given him enough attention and fact checking to catch any skewed reporting, but still skeptical.
Do appreciate that he seems to get the zoom calls posted (if laden with commentary) earlier than Aptera does.
We are assuming a manual assembly line capable of delivering 10,000 vehicles per year: (Production Means are assumed to be commensurate with the capacity)
About 1.7 vehicles per worker per day: Meaning 4.7 man-hours per vehicle for manual assembly of SKD kits (Semi-Knocked-Down-Kits) (Using mechanized jigs, power tools, any and all assembly means and computerized quality control at every stage).
"Production" means rolling out a vehicle ready to be delivered under warranty, (including, QC operations, Testing and final control).
Unless the kits actually are the major sub-assemblies, and even then, I have reasons to doubt it, (for this scale at least:10,000 Vehicles/year and 23 assembly workers).
Aptera has an edge. It's in the concept and the design. Efficiency is the edge. Manufacturing is completely different ball game. I would take as much advantage as possible of Tesla's experience, know how and technology; even if this means literally mimicking some features of their assembly methods. Scale, is an extremely important factor. Aptera being an autocycle principles that may apply to its manufacturing approach may neither trickle from the Tesla first principles nor from those of the e-Motorcycle industry. So, I believe that there is some fundamental thinking to be done here.
One area I would look into deeper to push the ultimate efficiency paradigm farther is the tires rolling resistance. That's where the other big chunk of energy consumption goes. Unlike drag, which in Aptera's case only becomes very significant at higher speeds (Roughly: 30 to 40 % gain around 40mph and multiples above 60mph), rolling resistance and tire slip affect efficiency at all speeds. So, it's as if one were to say that tires rolling resistance is a more important issue to tackle than Drag if one is to pursue the ultimate efficiency goal. However, this is a field that even tires OEMs are still quite evasive about. It all takes place at the zone of contact between the tire and the road and within the tread ply of the tire. The impact from one type of tire to the other may be multiples. Drag and rolling resistance are the only consumers of the vehicles net mechanical energy delivered to the tire.
It sounds realistic to me if it is just assembly
I agree Dan. Most do not see the intensive design, production, machining, and assembly of each of the major components. They have basically farmed out the major portion of the tuning and design of the most important parts. The car would be nothing if it didn't have batteries, motor, controller, inverter, DC-DC converter, charger, instrumentation, front and rear suspension subframes. I think most of those are being made by outside vendors. (correct me if I am wrong, because I am only speculating) But that is also a possible obstacle in the assembly chain and success of Aptera. If one or two of those major components gets a delay, shortage of components, labor force issues, or international trade issues, then production stops. That is why most major manufacturers try to make as much as possible themselves. This parallels modern bike manufacturing....most US company just design and assemble using already made components....then charge US production prices.
Lean manufacturing!
Assuming 10,000 vehicles, 50 weeks, and 23 people, that comes out to 1.7 vehicles per person per day.
In the below video, they say the Sol model is being built in Reno, NV and will soon come to San Diego to have its electrical done. Perhaps all assembly is being done in Reno, than brought to San Diego for electrical, fluids, charging, and final check out.
Perhaps all electrical components and cabling is installed in Reno, just not the battery.
It is so much fun speculating when you don't have to actually do the work.
@pistonboy In another video Chris Anthony clarified that the BODIES are build in Nevada and that the electrical systems are assembled at a smaller Aptera location in San Diego. The new, large San Diego facility will be used to assemble this "kit of parts" into a finished vehicle.
They will build the composite body in-house. The CTO said this week that they are looking at a faster curing epoxy resin so they can make a body panel every 10 minutes in each form (made from a 3D printer plug). The front and rear Al subframes are contracted out. They are buying battery cells and building their own battery boxes. They showed a movie of their machine to wire up the cells last fall. They designed their own charge controller, although presumably contracted out circuit board construction. They are using 3D printing for forms and small plastic parts and light covers. The in-wheel motors and controllers are built by Elaphe, presumably at their production facility in China. They are buying the touchscreen for most user controls and using the Crank Software UI framework. They are designing their own battery and motor temperature control systems and skin radiators. Charging systems both in and out seems to still be in flux. I think they “borrowed” a lot from Tesla here and in the steering collumn/controls. Not sure if they are building their own seats/interiors or they contracted that out. They designed their own custom lightweight wheels with production presumably contracted out. The braking system is probably a mix of custom and off-the-shelf components. They buy the solar cells, but do the rest of the solar work in house. I wonder if they have a machine to wire up the solar cells like the battery.
I’m a bit extra skeptical of the Aptera Reboot channel’s reporting. Too much of an obvious coattail scavenger with probable biases to suit. I haven’t given him enough attention and fact checking to catch any skewed reporting, but still skeptical. Do appreciate that he seems to get the zoom calls posted (if laden with commentary) earlier than Aptera does.
We are assuming a manual assembly line capable of delivering 10,000 vehicles per year: (Production Means are assumed to be commensurate with the capacity)
About 1.7 vehicles per worker per day: Meaning 4.7 man-hours per vehicle for manual assembly of SKD kits (Semi-Knocked-Down-Kits) (Using mechanized jigs, power tools, any and all assembly means and computerized quality control at every stage).
"Production" means rolling out a vehicle ready to be delivered under warranty, (including, QC operations, Testing and final control).
Unless the kits actually are the major sub-assemblies, and even then, I have reasons to doubt it, (for this scale at least:10,000 Vehicles/year and 23 assembly workers).
Aptera has an edge. It's in the concept and the design. Efficiency is the edge. Manufacturing is completely different ball game. I would take as much advantage as possible of Tesla's experience, know how and technology; even if this means literally mimicking some features of their assembly methods. Scale, is an extremely important factor. Aptera being an autocycle principles that may apply to its manufacturing approach may neither trickle from the Tesla first principles nor from those of the e-Motorcycle industry. So, I believe that there is some fundamental thinking to be done here.
One area I would look into deeper to push the ultimate efficiency paradigm farther is the tires rolling resistance. That's where the other big chunk of energy consumption goes. Unlike drag, which in Aptera's case only becomes very significant at higher speeds (Roughly: 30 to 40 % gain around 40mph and multiples above 60mph), rolling resistance and tire slip affect efficiency at all speeds. So, it's as if one were to say that tires rolling resistance is a more important issue to tackle than Drag if one is to pursue the ultimate efficiency goal. However, this is a field that even tires OEMs are still quite evasive about. It all takes place at the zone of contact between the tire and the road and within the tread ply of the tire. The impact from one type of tire to the other may be multiples. Drag and rolling resistance are the only consumers of the vehicles net mechanical energy delivered to the tire.