I commute on a daily basis -up to 250km / 156 miles daily- and as an inhabitant of The Netherlands ending up in a traffic jam is a very likely thing, for this reason I'd like to see the following specifications:
* radar assisted cruise control (braking and accelerating at all speeds and stop/follow in low speed stop and go traffic.
* Regen braking is adjustable in 3 or 4 settings from off to very heavy braking.
* high power single phase AC (7.4kW) for home charging and DC chargeport for emergency charging. Remember, The Netherlands is not very sunny and it can rain for long periods of time. Also, I use an AC Zappi charger (https://myenergi.com/product/zappi/) which can use 100% green energy to charge the battery, indicating you'd want to make full use of your solar panels on the house to charge the car during the daytime. When you own several BEV's you may not have the luxury of having several chargeports or have only place for one vehicle (like me) on the driveway and for this reason I'd need to move the car to charge the second BEV, in this case a Kia e-Niro.
* remote controlled vehicle heater with programmable times, akin to Sievers Parking Heater app to melt the snow and ice off the windscreen and to defrost the car on the inside. See http://www.standheizungsapp.de/ for the supplier. It is like the Webasto app but much better.
* heated and ventilated seats. Heated steering wheel.
* wheel motor in all three wheels for superb traction in slippery conditions
* audio system upgradable with a good DSP amplifier and high quality speakers to enjoy lossless Flac music
* Cupholders for thermos flasks (I drink loads of tea!)
In a nutshell: I want a warm car where I can enjoy my tea whilst listening to high quality sound.
Let me know your thoughts on these specifications.
I'll come back on these points if I forgot something and I'll edit.
cheers, Melvin
Melvin, your needs make sense to me, having lived in a rainier and cooler climate location with less sunny days during my 50 working/commuting years.
just a heads up....In my experience with this forum site 1) forum members may reply with their EV experiences , which is useful but they do not yet own an Aptera, so 2) if you don’t get replies in the forum “direct from Aptera” you may want to send these in short requests via the Ask a Question field under the WeFunder site “At this time”. For me, “not yet an EV owner”....reading Electric Vehicle owners “lessons learned“ and requests, like yours...are interesting and surely will be interesting to Aptera. I find Aptera provides meaningful replies at that site location. That is....as best they can “at this stage in their start up.
I had the good fortune to see and get a test drive in the past 2009 Aptera prototype vehicle , but the new Aptera seems light years ahead in what they are planning and so much new technology is now available.
Good Luck
Will do, thanks for the advice.
As someone with no icing experience, would cranking a subwoofer accelerate the de-icing? I imagine mechanical agitation is more energy efficient.
You would need to agitate the windscreen to make it flex beyond the flexing capabilities of the ice and snow, and the latter will be impossible as snow will not be bounced off the window. You'd need extremely powerful amplifiers and many subs and this, imo, is a waste of space and weight.
A heated windscreen in combination with a blower ejecting warm air to remove any dampness from the inside of the windscreen and the inside of the door windows and to pre-heat the interior works better. Or a linked seat/steering wheel heater...
I live in New England, and I would like all of those things (though I don't think that cooled seats would be needed here). The thing I would add, is a direct heating windshield defroster - Ford and others did this all the way back in the 1970's and 1980's. They are FAR more efficient than a heated air defroster, and they are faster, too.
This is best done with a very thin (like a molecule thick, or so) layer of silver or gold in the glass - it works like a typical rear window defroster, but without the lines.
That is a good idea, Ford still has this and it seems to work pretty good. Using hot air will melt the snow of the door windows so you can drive away and see where you're going.
Seat cooling is great, I have leather seats in the Kia e-Niro and in the summer you arrive without having a sweaty back or butt, in my opinion it adds a great deal of comfort. You can have cloth seats as that will lessen the need for seat cooling but I just like the look and feel of leather seats.
I am reading some of the issues with I assume is “light” cases of ice and/or snow on a vehicle.... if that is the case... given that the Aptera in a very sleek (aerodynamic) vehicle and it has a large cargo area... with the strong slippery (Teflon-like) car covers available these days.... could that offer a passive solution for you too? Sure it is a little work ,etc, but it could also protect the Aptera. I used a vehicle cover on a small vehicle I owned before leaving NJ, that had light ice/snow events and I found it manageable. I suppose you are not benefiting from the Aptera Solar cells in those Manila conditions at that time, so covering the solar cell skin is not key at that time.
Now, here in the SW US....my environment is just the opposite with not snow or ice. I hope the full time interior heat venting of the Aptera will keep my vehicle close to ambient temperature and I imagine better than my present vehicles do with just solar reflective film.
The unique composite resin body of the Aptera has claims of some insulation value too, which may add some benefits?!
cooled seats; or at the minimum, ventilated; are a serious priority for my next vehicle.
I lived in South Texas and even in a properly conditioned car you are going to sweat along your back where you contact the seat.
That is serious commuting...Still you are right to ask for those features. I had to pull my two deposits back from the original Aptera. It was a sad day for me. I am in for a Model Y when it is available and with self driving mode. I still want an Aptera for myself. So far I've never had to commute more than 30 Km each way (I'd move just to be close enough to ride my bike to work) although I am in a neighborhood with plenty of commuters who drive your distance each day...just nuts some are doing so in full size pickup trucks. I don't have a need for old weather either. Today was a glorious 24.5°C. We have it rough in California but we can dip down to 1-2°C when it does get really cold and I'd want my Aptera prewarmed as well. Right now, I just put a little portable electric heater in and turn it on with Alexa about 15 minutes before I get into the garage to drive away.
Currently I commute 154km on a daily basis and I expect this job to last for about a year, I'm an independant IT-Contractor -see my Linkedin page in my profile- and as such I have jobs accross the country (Netherlands is not very big mind you, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands for some information) and moving is not an option, for two reasons: I will need to move house every year or faster, and every time you buy a house a 6% tax is to be paid to the government on top of the buying price. As houses are comfortable around € 400.000 and above this doesn't make sense.
Enter the Aptera: low cost of operation, simplicity and good looks! And if priced at the right level exactly my kind of transportation!
Love California, I lived in Newport Beach for a while :)
Too bad your country limits your freedom to move with punitive taxes. Probably coming to the US soon. Some states are charging an exit tax as people move to avoid high taxes. Aptera will give all of us a good measure of freedom, but I wonder what our respective governments will do to punish us for adopting environmentally sound transportation, and avoiding gas taxes in the process.
Chris Anthony (Founder) answered my questions: https://wefunder.com/comments/80806.
It is looking very promising if all this can be delivered, I'd definately buy one and might even pick it up locally to do a road trip to New York and ship it back home.
All the best with your plans! And I am sure your location is an important market for Aptera so your delivery options may be easier than you think . Too early to tell.
Surely taking delivery at a CA plant, getting trained there on the operation and car, while meeting the staff would be a car buying life experience!
But if you follow through on your thought....
Hey “If the ⭐️ align” this could be the beginning of considering assessing a cross country Aptera Run (Caravan) 🤣
( Apteravan )
Although I am not that far from CA , living in the adjacent state and being retired ... I could consider driving my Aptera cross country to visit family back in NJ ( next to NY)
I suppose a 60 kWh model would provide an adequate range for each of the ~ 5 days to cross.
Of course feeding back the Aptervan journey story to the mother ship APTERA MOTOR CORP, while the world stays tuned!
If that works out maybe I could enhance the vehicle with more batteries for a longer range for future trips. But I have driven cross country in the US a few times.... and a 600mi/day is nice)
Just imagine an Aptera fleet ( of Apter”i” ?) crossing the US!
Some might view it an invasion
“What has landed”!
Hi Len,
good idea, if you have time for this maybe you should do this. Cost is not holding you back as the Aptera will have the lowest operational cost of any available vehicle on the market.
About picking the vehicle up from the factory is a matter of €, usually a $ price from the USA will become a € price in Europe and most of the times even more. For this reason I might pick it up and end up spending the same amount as if would pick up in The Netherlands, except that I have a nice vacation included.
I will but the idea in my TO DO BUCKET🤔 It could be fun to try to arrange with fellow Aptera owners and then I would have my family to join on a memorable vacation. We do have EV friendly hotels across the country to try to discuss/manage charging a fleet of Apterae
A road trip from CA to NJ, and in my case continuing on to ME, with a bunch of new Aptera owners sounds like great fun!
I don’t expect my Aptera before 2022, so 2022 Road trip!
As a Canadian, the only thing stopping my order is the lack of winterizing...for the money, I would insist on heated seats, lol...even if I have to garage it in snow.
I'll wait untill the first few batches have been delivered and buy my car in 2023. And remember, adding heated seats as an aftermarket item is also a possibility but I'd rather have them like you as an OEM item.
By the way, my Kia e-Niro has a heated steering wheel besides heated/cooled seats and it's truly comfortable. I've put almost 70.000km on it in 23 months and I love electric driving! Fuel wise it's averaged 154Wh/km on the total distance and thats already cheap so I can't wait till I have a car with on average halving that.
@Melvin de Vries After living in the south of Germany, I would also be happy about a winter package.
At the moment I would be happy if the Aptera came to Europe at all. 😂
@Max Conrad I know one of the investors, he lives in The Netherlands and he told me the Aptera is currently in the proces of being offered to the https://www.rdw.nl/zoeken?vt=&sq=typegoedkeuring&subScope=particulier for a CoC (Certificate of Conformity). I have good hopes.
https://www.aptera.us/forum/aptera-design-discussion/owners-manual-guide-folder-in-screen-adding-more-fun-sell-ability-some-efficiency-improvements (second to last paragraph)
I'd also vote for a tarp or car cover instead of melting. Uses no energy to keep snow/ice off. Waterproof fabrics (not coatings) & secure at mirrors + 1 rear strap under tail. There's even an umbrella type option but I think the intent is shade. I bring this up because if there's a way to combine flexible solar PV with either shade or snow protection, I'd be interested too.
Another feature for cold weather would be similar to an engine block heater but for the battery fluid. The warm battery would allow full regen & more at departure when rest of car is freezing. If this was just included in the 120V charging plug that would be fine but many of us have a J1772 so a separate 1000W 120V circuit would be best. The J1772 may fill the battery by 3AM & the 120V would keep the battery warm or warm it up for a scheduled departure.
I'd prefer to have a wifi enabled smart plug or 2 to control scheduling AND let me monitor electricity use for the car, heating the battery & any tools I use in the garage's circuit. Companies (like Siemens, Sense) are working to flag an abnormal signature for identified appliances. Diagnostics would flag a failing part before it becomes really expensive. Home based business owners would know how much electricity they use beyond just the car's.
Battery heated gloves are my preference instead of heated steering wheel. Take the heat with you! I bought Gerbing which have a fingertip that works on phone screen.
battery heated clothing is insulation is probably excessive... doubt insulation cant isolate body heat enough for practical cases if money is put into it, which can be practical if the consumer is convinced that such a product will last practically forever. I was thinking about clothing with variable insulation, where by default teh insulation layer is open and ventilated, but can be tightened to close ventilation holes for insulation by pull of a string or string connected to a zipper as a manual switch, etc, but there is a market for wasteful one time use chemical heat packages https://www.amazon.com/Uniheat-72-hour-Shipping-Reptiles-Tropical/dp/B07G8KBH15
such clothing can be something Aptera can help sell and with another specializng company, as options to the online order of teh car , in marketing schemes etc teslahttps://www.currentautomotive.com/model-y-is-the-first-tesla-with-a-heat-pump-heres-why-thats-a-big-deal/
I am a minimalist and can afford to be living in relatively great weather in Central Valley CA. I would not mind buying a glider from Aptera, no drive train, no electronics, no batteries. I'd finishing the vehicle myself have a minimalist's version of the Aptera if I can.
No frills just single rear wheel drive if possible and front wheels drive if not with only about 150 miles range at very high level of performance (for a fun commute), enough for 99% of my daily driving to keep weight down further than the current spec. I'd be using my phone with a speedometer app for my speedometer, simple resistive plug in heater and either park in my garage or use a heater/extension cord and blue tooth plug to prewarm the car in the brutal CA winter (where I live it can dip down to an occasional 30s LOL).
Traction control etc...none of that is appealing to me as I have driven for decades without the need to rely on any tech to stay safely on the road.
I've built and commuted on trikes back in the mid 80s and then started to electrically assisted them. Don't get me wrong I've reserved a 600 miles version of the Aptera and probably will load it with all the options but would love to build my own from just a glider.
YA, MINIMALIST!!
But I don't mind if built-in stuff (like the motors' traction control?) is cheaper to just leave in. I would buy one if they offered a solar-free RWD 12kWh with 3.3kW L2, mirrors, "hot-rod" fenders & no rear skirt*. Based on their current offers, that MSRP should be around $17k. Lighter, faster, more aero 14" front wheels, & a 15 to fit over the 1 rear motor.
Back to the thread topic:
Aptera says it will have heated seats, steering wheel, & battery on lines 25 & 76 of their FAQ Spreadsheet:
"The battery will have a heater".
Q: "Will it have a heat pump heated seats and steering wheel?"
A: "Yes"
*
Yeah, I've got a velomobile now with 500W worth of assist. Getting around mostly at 30 MPH or less. That's at minimal as it gets. The crowd that will forgo creature comfort though is rather small and I'd like my first Aptera to be loaded though. I like your rendition with the open wheel and minus the rear wheel skirt.
@Quan Pham Pic is from Aptera vid, proving they'd be fine ways to reduce cost (& weight) so more people could afford to help save the planet...
Mass appeal, with much lower Aptera cost but NOT forgoing ANY creature comforts from a typical car it's replacing:
- Hot-rod fenders & no rear skirt.
- Plain mirrors.
- 12.5kW battery. goes 313% of the US average daily drive.
- RWD with the lighter battery does 0-60 as fast as a Corolla.
- 3.3kW charger still adds 130 miles overnight from a std. outlet, & 33mi/hr on 240v.
- Cheaper option of no solar for those with extension-cord access at home or work.
@kiteboarder Those wheel covers and cameras are there not just for looks, but to increase the efficiency and range.
Unfortunately, your proposed mods to the wheels and mirrors increase the drag, thus decreasing the range and charging speed in miles/hour. Would need to do aerodynamic simulations to determine by how much.
My uneducated guess would be that those mods would perhaps double the drag or worse, meaning the range could be halved or worse. Anybody else want to guess what the changes would do to the efficiency?
Fine by me! With range only halved, I can still halve the battery to 12.5kWh & do 156% of my US avg daily drive, but it will probably make even less difference for the mostly-city miles I drive, where aerodynamics are less important & weight is more important.
Exactly my guess, remove the aerodynamic parts and the range will decrease as drag increases.