The Aptera Forum

Stephen Copestake
Feb 20

Amphibious? Solar/Hydrogen hybrid?

I've been looking forward to a solar car for 30 years. We had EV's and a network of charging stations in AD1900, so we are 120 years behind in development. If it wasn't for WWI we would now have EV's which were self powered for any distance per day.


I think an amphibious Aptera would be cool!


I also think we should be looking into hydrogen powered cars as batteries are still relying on capital resources and the mining and recycling of battery materials is severely deleterious to the environment. Perhaps Aptera could start researching a solar/hydrogen hybrid, with the solar PV electrolyzing water into HHO to burn in a closed cycle ceramic engine, with the exhaust steam going back through a steam electrolyzer acting like a turbo. Making hydrogen from water is only expensive if you have to separate, dry and transport the hydrogen - if it is produced just before combustion and left as a wet hydrogen/oxygen mix, it doesn't need to be stored or transported. You would still need some battery capacity though.


All EV's should have a solar PV roof and hood, even if just to counter battery drain when parked. Elon Musk is missing a trick and is being silly to refuse to use solar on his cars. I have a 20W 12V solar panel on the dash of my gas guzzling Mercedes-Benz ML320 W163, mainly just for fun, but also to trickle charge the battery as I don't use it much (620 - 2000 miles a year). An Aptera would be a nicely complimentary vehicle, but the ML can fit in two cubic metres and 600kg inside and tow 3500kg. Still, it has CO2 emissions of 500g/mile though...


I refuse to get an EV until it is solar by design! When I have my Aptera (with all wheel drive, full solar, and the off road package) I will just spend all my time aimlessly driving around southern Europe. I might hold out until they make one amphibious though.... Can't wait for the next phase of crowdfunding to open up! I'd be happy to make donations without any return!

15 comments
loswa
Feb 20

Stephen Copestake It is the year 2090, the whole earth has joined the united federation of EV manufacturers. Welcome to the world of pioneers and dreamers of the Aptera forum ... 😊


my_discord_number_is_0328
Feb 21Edited: Apr 05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ic6cRlyQ2rk what about combining turbine and piston generator to allow full burn of fuel, and maybe a testing button to test the nature of a given fuel so it can adapt and run optimally for as different types of fuel b/c we dont know what fuel will be dominant in the future and it would help if some fuel is not available like away from gas stations like how militaries use diesel etc. this would also allow for recyclable greenhouse gas neutral combustion fuels if such becomes more mass market.


this generator drives electric motors b/c its probably more efficient to do so than have crankshafts and gearings, and a small battery or supercapacitor can be applied to allow regenerative braking. this combines the desired parts of battery electric cars and combustion cars, more power per weight and space being taken up in car, battery life can would be a lot longer b/c it is used less often when supercapacitor can move energy directly from 2 stroke generator and turbines. combine turbine and piston generator to allow full burn of fuel.


electric cars battery currently are not recylable for many cycles for reuse in high performance application liek cars, even in lower performance applications like electronics ex. phones they are limited in how much they can be recycled, plus u cant mine those minerals ex cobalt lithium etc and waste them for long b/c they dont reform in nature like biofuels can from plants crops. also storing nuclear waste is difficult b/c it takes thousands of years before they become safe for reuse after a cycle lasting around 10 years at best case currently, so biofuel is a better storage of energy. nuclear fusion helps nuclear waste problem. this could also be a way to power the home more efficiently when electrical grid goes down b/c of technical problem or solar flare type thing, and leftover regenerative braking energy can be sent to grid or other devices. even besides the raw resources problem, battery degradation also makes decreases lifetime thus lifetime emissions especially at battery level, vs a more reliable combustion car. news/technology-news/under-skin-why-free-piston-engines-could-long-last-be-relevant


this is especially useful for high power to weight demanding applications like tow trucks maybe even planes, high budget sports cars etc


my_discord_number_is_0328
Feb 21Edited: Feb 22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxv-AUKsUs8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4A1uFuANMZg rallye driving reauires adjusting to charging terrain on the fly making it more sporty, and its a more legally ok way to have a more sporty drive b/c there are no speed limits off road plus tries dont wear out as fast so cheaper and less smelly to drift the car b/c there is more often less traction especially on snow. climbing vertical inclines even slowly is a sport (rock climbing)


this can happen via outsourced suspension, even a different suspension structure, or even this: https://www.aptera.us/forum/main/comment/5fffd3815d72e9008cb8fef2

srmarti
Feb 23

Generating hydrogen to burn in an ICE would be far less efficient than just charging the batteries. Storing HHO ( I guess that means hydrogen and oxygen in a common tank) is dangerous/explosive.

my_discord_number_is_0328
Mar 19Edited: Apr 20

and for fun(luxry market), customer can have excuse to rev more than u need to move without fuel economy loss b/c revving charges the small battery/supercapacitor, and u can have lower/no revs afterward to have no fuel economy/emission loss.

my_discord_number_is_0328
Apr 29

wonder if the airpressure buildup can be more directly from free piston rather than it powering electric pump, or a mix of both, and turbine powers electronics if its too low torque.

PV1
May 04

I think a capacitor bank would be more useful than losing 75% of the incoming energy in the conversion to and from Hydrogen, but the on-board solar won't keep up with driving in either case. The solar array, at best, can generate 700 Wh in one hour. At 30 MPH, the car will use 3 kWh in one hour. The Aptera is still too heavy and doesn't have enough solar to drive any appreciable distance with less than 3 kWh of energy storage. Capacitors will weigh more than batteries to get a usable range, and Hydrogen won't be energy dense enough for a closed-loop electrolyzer system to work. Commercial Hydrogen cars have tank pressures exceeding 11,000 PSI (twice that of CNG cars) to achieve their range figures.


Honestly, if Aptera has similar charge controls to Tesla, keeping the battery in the 30-70% charge window will net a battery life of well over 10 years. I have a 9-year old EV that's at 80% of its original capacity, and the first 3 years of its life were brutal.


As for being amphibious, there is a huge difference between weathertight and watertight.