Window midbar

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Window midbar

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Window midbar

  • Window midbar

     kerbe2705 updated 1 week, 3 days ago 19 Members · 69 Posts
  • Wilson Tsai

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 9:20 am

    Investor and reservation holder for Aptera here. I can’t wait to get mine and be able to show it off but boy do I wish they could do something about the side window’s midbar. Part of the appeal to driving a shiny new toy is to be able to roll down the windows and greet/chat with people but the midbar awkwardly obstructs the driver’s face and vision. Any remedy to be able to minimize it or atleast make it transparent?

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 10:25 am

    They discussed this in a Q&A video. The split window was important for smoothing airflow. Any amount of ridge at that point hurt aerodynamics too much. Making it transparent might be possible since they can use polycarbonates (autocycle regulations).

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 10:45 am

    Sure! Want to get together and make some aftermarket acrylic bubble doors?

    The window bar exists to give an edge for the lower window for aerodynamics. It also increases side impact safety since in the US vehicles are tested to prevent unbuckled occupants from being ejected. It keeps the unbuckled dummies in the car and it keeps foreign objects out. If there’s no side airbag the bar will serve that purpose.

    • Lou Verner

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 11:49 am

      Peter, I absolutely love the clean look of those acrylic bubble doors, but drawback is that we now have no roll-down-the-window-and-chat-with-someone option that sparked Wilson’s comment in the first place. I think Curtis’s option of making the minbar transparent is best we could hope for.

    • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 8:32 pm

      crash structural problem. graphene isnt yet applied in large pieces, only recently was it used n construction

    • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

      Member
      November 18, 2021 at 8:07 pm

      compromised between making it look liek outline of a eye and following the line at the same time. delete the part under the line as normal body material.

      • Ray Holan

        Member
        November 22, 2021 at 8:19 am

        Like your red-lined location for the window sidebar. Seems to provide good visibility AND a stylish look. Personally, I can live with a closed surface wherein the window is fixed and cannot be opened. I plan to use my Aptera for local travel 99% of the time so I won’t have to contend with toll booths. I don’t do drive-through fast food so I don’t need a window to open for that purpose either. That said, I certainly understand others needing and wanting a window that opens.

  • Scott Price

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 12:35 pm

    I agree that Peter’s extremely cool full side open window concept may not meet side impact requirements, though I wish it would and we could get one!

    My strong preference would be for a full roll-down window or a half-way single roll-down window that opens from top to mid-way down if the shell curvature restricts further up/down movement. If neither of those were possible, then I would actually prefer a fixed single sheet of glass (that doesn’t even open) over the current design. Others prefer to have the half slot window on the side over no opening, which is fine and understandable for them. In my opinion, this is an obvious field of view blocker and impediment to an optimal driving experience. I am a big fan of the Aptera and have ordered one, but this is an example where they chose eeking out nth degree efficiency in an already incredibly efficient vehicle and “lost sight” that there are other important priorities for an all-around effective vehicle such as driver experience, safety, and field of view. I anticipate there will be some negative feedback on this design issue when people drive it in the real world. Even though a single piece of stationary glass would cost less, have fewer parts, weigh less, improve aerodynamics even more, and improve field of view, I would actually pay for it as an option. However, there are currently no plans to do so.

    There was a lot of really good discussion about this, including alternative design ideas with concept drawings, in the old forum that is not available anymore. I saved some of it offline and even wrote a nice letter to the CEOs since I believe the mid-window view-blocking frame is a mistake. They did not respond. There was one generic response to a webinar question a while ago stating that they do not plan to change / improve the side windows design. Hopefully, after future requests, it will become either a factory option or aftermarket solution to resolve this with a better design. However, it might require replacing the entire door, not just the window area of the initial door.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 12:51 pm

      As a autocycle most safety tests don’t apply. Aptera being safe is a good thing but legally they don’t need to do much. Pretty sure you could take the door off entirely and be totally legal. Arcimoto has no doors and neither does every motorcycle in existence.

      Peter’s concept definitely wont be safe by comparison to the stock doors but that is a personal risk not an area for government interventions.

      Personally I don’t really mind the mid window frame but I can see the concern. Hopefuly the way the door is designed will make it something which could be tweaked. That piece of frame probably isn’t structural or safety related so you’d think it could be far thinner.

      • Ray Holan

        Member
        November 17, 2021 at 1:25 pm

        At first glance, I too thought the window sidebar was a big mistake. However, I began to reflect on all the cars I’ve had in the past and a good number of them had some kind of blind spot that I just got used to after awhile. The Aptera window bar will not prevent me from seeing traffic coming at me from the left or the right. Yes, I don’t get a completely unobstructed view, but it’s only 2 inches or so — a stripe of data. I also thought of the other reason I look out the side window: to scan for traffic passing me on the left or on the right. Of course, the sideview mirrors/cameras will handle that despite the window bar.

        On balance, I’d rather not have the sidebar, but I think I can accommodate them after a period of adjustment.

        • Scott Price

          Member
          November 17, 2021 at 2:03 pm

          Ray, that is certainly a possibility for you. I recommend keeping in mind that all of the pictures and videos are from a distance. That thick opaque frame will be about 1 foot from your eyes and even closer when you rotate your head to the left to look at something. Therefore, a permanent, close-in, 2″ high, long length, lateral blockage at or near eye height actually takes up a good bit of field of view. At best, it will likely be annoying. At worst, it will block the view of the outside world not just for enjoyment and seeing the scenery on a road trip but also potentially for safety, intersections, pedestrians, etc.

          In my opinion, they made an unfortunate trade-off on this one design decision among their many other great design decisions. I have yet to hear a solid reason that this is a good thing to have in and of itself. The two things it did provide was 1) a partially opening window with 2) minimized aerodynamic effect. If not for restricting the shape of the shell and going for nth degree aerodynamics, nobody would actively include something like this as a desirable design benefit in and of itself. Some people (from their computers and without actually driving an Aptera 🙂 ) are saying they will get accustomed to it, which is fine. I am also sitting behind my computer, though unlike most people, I have a degree in this and actually worked on aircraft field of view design for several years. That is why I am more “passionate” about this than most, since I can see it is an unfortunate design problem that could have been avoided by accepting other minor trade-offs.

          While 1000 mile range may grab initial headlines, items such as this can deter non-early-adopters from buying and making Aptera successful in the longer run. Aptera needs to keep in mind the overall driver experience and not be always purely driven by a dry spreadsheet of numerical tech specs, in my opinion. I want Aptera to be successful.

          • Ray Holan

            Member
            November 17, 2021 at 2:25 pm

            I respect your experience, Scott. Thanks for pointing out that the driver’s side bar is close to my face and the blocking vision effect is magnified due to this proximity. As I mentioned in my post, I’d prefer to not have this obstruction and if there is an aftermarket or OEM alternative I’d for sure jump on it. One of my pet peeves with a lot of modern cars is the preponderance of “gun slit” side windows where you only get 1 foot of glass to peek through to the left and to the right. I guess the Aptera sidebar is a variation of this drawback.

            • Scott Price

              Member
              November 17, 2021 at 3:36 pm

              Agreed all around, Ray! I have heard from others who would like a better side windows option, as well. Hopefully, it will happen, TBD.

          • Lou Verner

            Member
            November 17, 2021 at 2:59 pm

            Scott, have to agree with you that Aptera engineers may have placed just a tad too much importance at squeezing out every last iota of efficiency through computerized optimization at the risk of losing potential customers who will be put off by such things as obvious as wanting a clear view out their side windows! The mid-bar may only be the most glaring example of over-emphasis on the Cd. What would be instructive would be to know how much efficiency/range is actually sacrificed by not going with more practical/aesthetic “suboptimal” designs that nevertheless provide a superior driving experience. Returning to the mid-bar…unless it is structurally critical in its current form, why not look at ways to either reduce its width or again make it out of some transparent material. Put that in your computer and “smoke it”!

            • Scott Price

              Member
              November 17, 2021 at 3:47 pm

              I have officially “inhaled” your inputs and agree with you, Lou. To me, the best all-around solution for those who want at least a partial roll-down window is to have it one piece of glass that only moves down half way from the top. Then ventilation, drive-through food, and toll booth needs are covered, though people who want to get a tan resting their left arm on the door window sill would not like it. The current issue is that the curvature of the exterior shell and the size/shape of the door do not lend itself to a full top to bottom range of motion for the full expanse of window glass.

              Regarding making the frame transparent material: That may help a bit, though I believe the problem would still persist. Any frame material is likely going to have curve distortion in it plus the current lower half glass will presumably need to seat itself up into a flexible (and generally non-transparent) material that will act as a weather seal (such as a rubber compression strip or other similar material).

            • Lou Verner

              Member
              November 17, 2021 at 4:15 pm

              Thanks Scott – always very appreciative of those like yourself who are speaking from either a professional engineer’s or designer’s perspective. Guess I missed wherever it was stated that amount of window curvature necessitated the midbar- my apparently faulty remembrance had Chris explaining it as a way to cut down on drag created by typical door framing for window at the top. Like your option to just have window roll down half way from the top!

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              November 23, 2021 at 6:56 pm

              The whole POINT of this vehicle is to “squeeze out every last iota of efficiency” from the design, not to create a mass-market vehicle: They’re planning to only make 10,000 per year!

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:04 pm

      The bubble doors could have a single rail across the middle where the bottom of the current window is to give the side impact strength and wouldn’t sacrifice much. We’ll have to see.

      The two-part window was a big source of contention in the rift in the company in 2009-2011. They fought and argued over it and made a big deal out of it – so I think they are pretty set on leaving it with the center bar at this point. Aftermarket we could definitely do whatever we want with it.

      • Scott Price

        Member
        November 17, 2021 at 4:17 pm

        Peter, I sure hope that there is a good solution. I love your open window concept if it could work and be relatively safe. Of course, someone would have to spend a lot of time and money coming up with the aftermarket company, engineering, and product to create this. Count me in on a pre-order. 🙂

        Interesting pre-history there. Thanks for sharing that. I can understand why there was contention. Disappointed that the contention was resolved as it was, though.

        Regarding aftermarket replacement of the windows area in the current doors: I am concerned that it would require full replacement of the entire set of doors since the window seals, glass elevation outwards from center, and other factors might not be built in from the beginning to adapt for single pane glass applications from the current factory design. Hopefully it will work well for aftermarket adaptation, TBD.

      • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

        Member
        November 17, 2021 at 8:52 pm

        but no opening window. but sion motors moss helps clear the air of co2 etc, so it can help make up for less circulating air, but not help thermally, which can be done with holes on the right places. the moss is greyish white apprently, and they colored it green with “natural dye”… so another level of personalization to sell

  • Norman Roberts

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 2:59 pm

    I thought that Chris or Steve indicated that the short window was do to the curvature of the body not allowing a window to roll up and properly seal

    • Scott Price

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:06 pm

      Norman, yes, you are correct. The curvature of the shell plus the interior usable area of the current door design are the primary limiters on having a full top to bottom range of motion like a “normal” window that 99.999% of other cars in the world provide (I say 99.999% since some people like to point to a very few random, extremely low volume cars that had this same design issue). This is why I suggested other alternatives (single piece glass that only partially opens from top to midway instead of the current opening from midway to bottom, or even a single fixed piece of glass that is non-retractable as a last ditch solution if they cannot otherwise find a way to resolve this design problem, and/or one of these as an extra cost option for those who are concerned about it while others who do not care about good field of view don’t have to pay for it).

      Forum member loswa contributed various ideas a while ago on the old forum, such as the ones here. Not that any of these are the end all be all. The main point is that Aptera has a top notch engineering team that has solved many more significant problems than this. So, it would be great if they did not throw up their hands and ignore it but instead would take it on as a challenge to properly solve.

      If Aptera hopefully becomes successful and is around for years, I would not be at all surprised if early Aptera can be easily identified from a distance by the side window frames. Meaning that later models will take real world customer feedback into account, solve for it, and later versions will not have this mid-window frame at all. That’s my crystal ball reading for the day. 😉

      • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

        Member
        November 17, 2021 at 8:31 pm

        maybe curving the glass was the challenge, leading to current design it could also window poping out and sliding backward over car, on a rail like a minivan door. unlike these designs, current design keeps water out when raining and window is down, a liquid drainage hole always open would hurt thermal insulation. a pop out roof can keep rain from getting inside when window is down. a bending stick pulls it down on rails as window goes down and same pushing up to close.

  • Paul Kirchner

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 3:42 pm

    If Aptera is looking for an overall driver’s experience there is no way a fully closed cabin is going to cut it. The windows have to be openable to some degree, somehow, somewhat. Without it, on some psychological level, you will feel trapped.

    • Oz Man

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:03 pm

      Paul, remind me not to invite you along on the mission to Mars.😁

      • Paul Kirchner

        Member
        November 17, 2021 at 4:28 pm

        Ha! I could do the moon but not Mars!

    • Scott Price

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:26 pm

      That’s fine, Paul. As mentioned and in my opinion, the more optimum solution within current design constraints would be for the full side window to open from top to midway with a single large piece of glass instead of the current (much more complicated) design where it opens from midway to bottom and also has a separate immovable top section of glass.

      Also, the current thick frame/header may in itself seem psychologically constraining. Related to your concern, it may create the effect of an “immovable bar of a cage” that goes right through the middle of the normal visual space of a side window. And the likelihood of an adult physically being able to get out through that current lower window slot would require a thin person, indeed.

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 4:21 pm

    I believe in the recent Jay Leno video that Chris mentions the aerodynamic impact of having a full retractable window due to the airflow disruption caused by a typical recessed door window with frame. Based on his comment the current design is apparently the best method they could find based on simulations to retain a low drag coefficient while having a partial retractable window.

    Paul

    • Lou Verner

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:34 pm

      Thanks Paul! That’s where I got the impression is was question of aerodynamics not curvature of window. At least I’m reassured I’m not as yet 100% certified whacko!

    • Scott Price

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:41 pm

      Paul, yes, you are correct.

      As I mentioned, Aptera chose tech spec numbers over optimizing driver experience in this case. Since the car is already incredibly efficient (and more so than anything else in the current or near term foreseeable market), I disagree with their choice on this particular design trade-off decision for the reasons outlined. The absolute lowest possible drag coefficient is great for science projects but it should not be the singular exclusive guiding force for a vehicle to be used by real people in real life.

  • Paul Kirchner

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 4:33 pm

    All good points. Like has been mentioned though, the curvature may prevent a top down solution. Meant this to pair with the response a couple above.

    • Scott Price

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 4:53 pm

      Agreed, Paul.

      For me personally, if Aptera cannot or declines to fix this problem (which is apparently the case), I would personally rather have the option of a fixed single pane window that could not even be “rolled down”, believe it or not. I am not expecting others to want that since many folks want at least a slot to open, and fixed window is definitely not my first choice, though I have heard some on the old forum agree with this so that they could also have a better field of view and driving experience. It would cost less, have fewer parts (remove all of the controls, electric motor, mid-window frame, extra seals, etc.), weigh less, and actually be more aerodynamic than the current design.

      I would also be completely fine with a little less curvature/tiny bit more drag to fit a better solution. Again, it is a broader problem that definitely could be solved if it was prioritized.

      • GRAUSS Thierry

        Member
        November 19, 2021 at 11:30 am

        I would also like a fixed pane window instead of this dual windows. The visibility would be much better and I never open my windows in cars anyway. And with the wheel pods, you are too far to take your parking ticket or motorway ticket anyway.

        It will have less complexity and be cheaper too.

  • V pilot

    Member
    November 17, 2021 at 5:13 pm

    Didn’t they lower the seats to accommodate taller drivers in the Beta series? Maybe it will not be so bad for 6′ and under.

    • Scott Price

      Member
      November 17, 2021 at 5:52 pm

      Kenneth, yes, you are correct. They said they were going to lower the seat some. This does not remove the problem, though, especially since the mid-window frame member swoops downwards toward the front (so it will always obstruct at minimum part of the view for every driver), the problem persists for taller drivers, and separately the lowered seat may create a “go kart effect” that is not as comfortable by reducing thigh support on long trips.

      As an example, I took a screenshot from today’s (presumably non-beta) Right To Repair video from Aptera. You can imagine from this that moving the seat down a bit may still affect a wide range of people and eye heights.

      • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

        Member
        November 17, 2021 at 8:21 pm

        removable cushion can help. aftermarket lumbar support

        • George Hughes

          Member
          November 18, 2021 at 11:32 pm

          Another ‘cheap fix’ might be, if you’re in tight quarters where you’re max speed is 25 mph and you like a ‘full view’ … you might consider cruising ‘doors up’ …

          I think some of the reasoning is with the Aptera offering a comprehensive level 2 driver assist program – collision avoidance warning is inherent in these systems – any potential decline in safety the driver to see traffic is more than made up by the tech.

          If Aptera is as popular as I believe it will be, the aftermarket will provide multiple options.

          • Riley -_-

            Member
            November 19, 2021 at 1:58 am

            I do hope there is an aftermarket bubble window replacement, chop off the mid bar and remove all the extra window regulator weight. With how wide the wheel pods make the car having a roll down window is useless in a drive thru. Unfortunately with the butterfly doors driving with the door open would block a lot of your view.

          • Curtis Cibinel

            Member
            November 19, 2021 at 2:18 am

            Ignoring the safety (which is still ok) the bubble door concept is actually more practical than it looks. Great driving visibility and non issue for drive thru (per Riley’s point).

            Ps: I still stand by my statement in another thread that if your door is see-through lay off the fast food anyway. Noone wants a clear view of mcpudge in the next lane.

            • Peter Jorgensen

              Member
              November 19, 2021 at 1:19 pm

              That’s the main motivation for them – to be able to see where the tire is better offroad. But I’ve never been in an alpha so I don’t know how the tire visibility is or if it would even help. We’ll have to see.

            • Lou Verner

              Member
              November 19, 2021 at 2:11 pm

              Now that it’s been pointed out that one really can’t roll window down for any practical purposes, such as getting parking tickets, visiting ATMs, paying tolls, (no we’re definitely not getting fast food!) etc because wheels will put you too far away, I can see why solid non-movable window would make sense. This does pose problem for how one does negotiate such transactions. Could you just open gull-wing door w/o difficulty, if for example, you’re paying toll or at ATM where space is tight? Wondering if team Aptera has thought this thru.

            • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

              Member
              November 20, 2021 at 8:26 pm

              gullwing without any part of roof being part of door for structural efficiency would also fix the problem of rain getting into car if top part of window rolled down, but may need to open wide even beyond wheel covers if they dont want to make it relatively difficult for disabled people to get in car with a small door. door can slide upward and a bit layed on the roof to fix that without making it rise too high low roof parking floors (doesnt have to be perfect full opening in suuch situation.

              minivan sliding door with sliding rail inside car can work with a pop out water gutter on top of door b/c that part is curved and i guess thats why window top part doesnt roll down, or else theyd have whole window move done halfway with no dividing line. sliding rail can be slanted so door slides into lock, although if car is parked at angle the trick wont work but thats ok and better than inefficient auto closing hydraulics or motors

              as is, it can be painted over as pinstripe that leads to the rear like shown in https://www.aptera.us/community/discussion/aptera-fan-graphics-wrap-colors-and-images/

              Aptera Fan Graphics – Wrap Colors and Images

            • Peter Jorgensen

              Member
              November 22, 2021 at 7:30 am

              Lou, If Countach owners can learn to reverse their cars by sitting on the door sill with the window open and slipping the clutch in and out with their right foot, I’m sure we can figure out a way to do drive-throughs with Apterae.

              How to reverse a Countach

              How to get into a BMW I8

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQeL28JoJ44

  • Ray Holan

    Member
    November 22, 2021 at 8:25 am

    Wilson, having reviewed that comments in this thread, I decided to do an experiment. I am going to put a stripe of blue painter’s tape on my driver’s side window to see how annoying it is in real life. I’ll position it in the approximate position of the Alpha Aptera sidebar plus a half inch to allow for the lower seat position we anticipate in the Beta Aptera.

  • Marlin Press

    Member
    November 22, 2021 at 2:06 pm

    I agree with a lot that has been said here. A couple of observations just to point out. Nobody seems to be complaining about the visual obstruction of the A pillar (front door edge) which is on this and most vehicles. It seems that we have all gotten used to those obstructions without constantly running into things. It is also wider than the window seam. Also most of us can turn our sun visors to the side which also blocks view, albeit it is easily repositioned as needed.

    Granted constant improvement is a great thing but I am willing to tolerate some issues as an early adopter in order to both get my hands on this new toy and help suggest improvements for future owners.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      November 22, 2021 at 2:34 pm

      👍 I think most will buy the Aptera even with the window mid bar. And like you point out, we are accustom to driving with a much larger obstruction with the A Pilar. The Aptera has so much going for it I cannot believe that a window mid bar would be a deal breaker. If it is, those people are really missing out.

      Dating my self, the first car I drove had two pieces of glass in the windshield. Between them was a “bar” from the top to the bottom of the windshield which blocked part of the view forward. I survived driving that car and am still here waiting for my Aptera with a mid bar on the side window!

  • Lou Verner

    Member
    November 22, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    John, I’d really appreciate your input on my earlier post regarding logistical difficulty posed by outboard wheels in getting close enough to facilitate transactions at ATMs, toll booths, parking tickets etc where tight quarters may preclude opening door as option. Do we need to design some sort of extendable robotic arm?

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      November 22, 2021 at 8:08 pm

      Probably too expensive, complicated and weak but Triggo has a fun solution – retractable wheel pods. Not sure I like the idea of using it to weave through heavy traffic like their marketing shots but for parking it would be really great.

      In most cases getting out will probably need to be the solution.

      • Lou Verner

        Member
        November 23, 2021 at 5:06 am

        I agree getting out may be only option – so here’s what we need to know: Assuming driver is as close as the front wheels will allow, will the gull-wing door open to allow egress without hitting whatever structure they’ve pulled up to, such as toll booth? Basically the door would have to be capable of opening within the distance between the Aptera body and the outer edge of the front wheel skirt. Guessing someone in Team Aptera could answer that, or perhaps one of our clever members looking at videos?

        • Oz Man

          Member
          November 23, 2021 at 5:34 am

          Lou, IIRC it was discussed in the past that the doors extend slightly beyond the outside of the wheel pods when opening, I don’t recall the exact amount, but I believe it was a very few inches. This may have changed with the altered shape of the Beta vehicles, we’ll have to wait for updated info from Aptera to get an exact result.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      November 23, 2021 at 9:49 am

      Lou, I don’t have much input on this issue. There is no engineering solution to the problem because unfortunately, the front suspension design is a feature that supports the efficient aero performance. Even if the windows were designed to roll down completely it would not mitigate the issue. I guess the classic two edged sword, cutting one way a good design feature and cutting the other way a cause for aggravation.

      Possibly a driving technique called crabbing for those that are pilots would work but need to see an Aptera and take some measurements to determine if it would be suitable.

      Of course, the variety of configurations of ATMs, toll booths, parking entrances and exits make it difficult to create a solution that would work for every case.

      I would have to say that Curtis hast the simplest and most practical solution.

      Another concern not voiced is that some of the pathways for these devices are pretty narrow. The extra wide stance of the Aptera may preclude easy entry to access the device.

  • Lou Verner

    Member
    November 23, 2021 at 12:28 pm

    Thanks for your input, John. You are correct that the wide stance may create its own problems negotiating through tight quarters. Needless to say we’ll doubtless all have our own yet-to-be-anticipated adventures once on the road!

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    November 23, 2021 at 1:47 pm

    Perhaps Aptera could build some sort of a removable tray into the center console that could be used as an extender when passing toll payments or paying at the drive-thru window. It could slide in/out and be hidden within the design of the console. Or, just buy a church collection basket with extension handle! Problem solved!😆

    • Lou Verner

      Member
      November 23, 2021 at 6:05 pm

      That and a “ticket grabbing device” and we’re all set! 🙃

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        November 23, 2021 at 6:32 pm

        Lol – easy enough 😉

        • Lou Verner

          Member
          November 23, 2021 at 6:35 pm

          Bingo – 2 more items for the Aptera aftermarket store!

  • kerbe2705

    Member
    November 23, 2021 at 7:15 pm

    I’m going to go out on a limb, here, and suggest that – perhaps – the distance from an open Aptera window to a ticket dispenser or drive-up ATM or fast-food window might be less of a chasm than many are anticipating. Now I might have a unique physicality, but my arms extend from my shoulders and can be moved in a number of different directions: The distance from the side of my torso to the tip of my extended index finger is 31″ (79cm). If one inspects the attached image, the distance from the window sill to the outside of the wheel pants would appear to be significantly less than 31″. Yes, my reach does – indeed – exceed my grasp but I’d venture that the distance is not more than 18″ (46cm). In addition, I’ve not had to open a window to pay a toll in over a decade: I have an EZ-Pass.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      November 23, 2021 at 9:10 pm

      Very artful tongue and cheek! I think though we need the actual measurements to verify this hypothesis.

      I have EZ-Pass too but it doesn’t work well at my ATM

      😉

      • kerbe2705

        Member
        November 23, 2021 at 9:41 pm

        To be honest, I almost never use cash – and my bank has only walk-up ATMs. But we know the tire size so we know the wheel width and can make assumptions about the overall width of the wheel pants. We’ve also seen the camera wings close enough to human bodies to estimate their size. I’d be surprised, then, if my estimate was far off the mark…

        • Paul Schultz

          Member
          November 24, 2021 at 4:48 am

          How will Aptera account for those of us smitten with T. Rex arm span?

          • Peter Jorgensen

            Member
            November 24, 2021 at 7:17 am

            Like this?

          • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

            Member
            November 24, 2021 at 3:07 pm

            open door, opening window wouldnt be much better for heater/AC effeincy anyway. in case current design opened too wide, sliding doors upward or rear ward. it seems you wouldnt need to open it up fully to get out anyway, at least as long as you arnt exceptionally obese

        • Nathan Hubbard

          Member
          November 27, 2021 at 5:03 pm

          You’re a lot more optimistic about this than I am.

          Looking at the design of this vehicle combined with the apparent seating position, and I’m going to say that you’ll never be able to reach anything in any sort of drive-up situation, be it a ticket for a parking garage, a toll booth, fast food, or anything else.

          I’ve driven cars where you just sit fairly low that didn’t have wheels sticking way out, and it was challenging even for me at 6’2″.

          • kerbe2705

            Member
            November 27, 2021 at 6:00 pm

            The Aptera isn’t particularly low to the ground – and the window opening is designed to accommodate the tallest available beverage cup… I venture that it will be no more difficult to reach outside the vehicle than it is to reach outside a pickup truck.

            • Scott Price

              Member
              November 27, 2021 at 9:29 pm

              I respectfully disagree with the thought that it will be “no more difficult to reach outside the vehicle than it is to reach outside a pickup truck”. Reaching outside is only half the story, since you then still need to also get something back inside. Just think of how your arm swings / pivots when you are getting a “tallest available beverage cup” at a drive-through and you have to keep that cup upright. You place your elbow or upper arm on or above the window “sill”, reach out, grab, and then pivot your forearm either up and into the interior (which you can’t do in the current Aptera design since up is blocked by the mid-frame and fixed upper window) or you rotate your forearm forward (which is blocked by the frame and fixed window that curves downwards toward the front). You will instead need to keep your entire arm essentially straight/locked at the elbow to fit the “cup” within the slot window at its tallest open height (that is rearward toward the head and shoulder) and you will need to lean your torso way into the interior over the center console to pull your arm with the cup (or bag of food or such) horizontally through that tallest lateral part of the slot window into the vehicle.

            • kerbe2705

              Member
              November 27, 2021 at 10:02 pm

              Or you could just use both hands: One brings it from the building to the window and the other one then brings it inside the vehicle. This will work only if you have two functioning hands, granted, but many people do.

              Also, the server has arms that can extend from the building to bring the package closer to you.

              As I never eat in my vehicles nor patronize fast-food dispensaries I don’t have a pony in this race: I’m most likely to need to reach out of the window for a parking slip at the airport, to pay when leaving the same or to activate an automatic car wash.

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