Width of car and European roads

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Width of car and European roads

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Width of car and European roads

  • Width of car and European roads

  • Kevin Lyda

    Member
    September 16, 2021 at 11:20 am

    A week or so ago I noticed that the width of the Aptera is 2.2 meters. That’s a problem on Irish country roads – which is most of my driving.

    Will the European model be as wide as the American model? Would there be any consideration to making it a bit thinner?

    I currently drive a Tesla Model 3. I waited for it over a Model S specifically due to the width issue and unfortunately the Model 3 was only 3cm thinner. A car that’s 20cm wider is… problematic. Seriously, if any Aptera designers want to see Irish rural roads for a few days I’m happy to let them. Or I can send them some dashcam footage.

  • Leonard Nowak

    Moderator
    September 16, 2021 at 1:38 pm

    Hey Kevin

    I hear you! Spent many business trips mainly County Cork area and down to Kensale and the Ring of Kerry( Lovely)

    Yes I even drove myself with the company car through round a bouts

    My white hairs developed there!

    But Aptera has answered this in their FAQ sections , if you search this 400+ answers and basically … For Europe and some other markets they will have to come up with solutions

    If you have ever been to the old streets of Philadelphia they are very tight too!

    But not like Ireland with rock walls along the winding roads and cattle or locals bowling in the roads!!!

    Cheers!

  • Riley -_-

    Member
    September 16, 2021 at 6:12 pm

    I lived a couple of years in county mayo and had to avoid those tight backroads with my comparatively large dodge. Aptera will have to make a European legal narrower version but there is no way to know how long that will be.

    • George Hughes

      Member
      September 16, 2021 at 9:51 pm

      The reason I’ve heard stated for the width is that the wheel pods need the separation from the cabin portion of the car to minimize the drag co-efficient. Having the fenders too close simply caused much greater wind resistance.

      Regardless, the change in width will require at least a new front suspension geometry with the penalty being an increase in drag because the wheel pods are now ‘too close’ to the main body; a design the founders rejected out of the box on first principle.

      The good news is the production process for the Aptera body is based on the design intrinsic to what amounts a custom mold. That means the lines of the European model may include a narrower cabin or even slightly different lines.

      My expectation is they will try several potential designs; maybe even on that brings the front wheels in-board with fully formed fenders… IF that is what the analysis of the aerodynamics suggests delivers the lowest drag.

      Of course it could be the same suspension geometry is used but the distance between the suspension mounts are narrowed with the hit on drag but it sounds like the need of being slippery through the air may not be as valuable in road-width restricted locales, including cities. Speeds are typically much lower in these environments and, if the hit on the highway results in 9.2 mi/kwh instead of 10.5, the smaller-width variant would likely get a following.

      If Aptera chose a full-fendered design , it might make sense to launch that city variant as a new model with increased space for solar.

      The good news is the task of adapting the Aptera to reduce the track, can involve changes across a spectrum of modifications from quick, down and dirty to the germination of a distinct city model.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 1:59 pm

    Alright, I did a little graphic project. Draw your own conclusions as you like.

    My opinion: It works fine anywhere a model X does.

    Here are dimensions for some vehicles for comparison:

    • John Trotter

      Member
      September 27, 2021 at 8:21 pm

      Peter, excellent work. Can the pictures be placed in the Ambassador file server so we could print them ourselves?

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 2:00 pm

    Click image to enlarge

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 2:01 pm

    Click image to enlarge

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 2:01 pm

    Click image to enlarge

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 2:02 pm
  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 2:03 pm

    European cars comparison

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 17, 2021 at 2:04 pm

    US Parking Lot comparison

    • Henry Kitt

      Member
      September 17, 2021 at 3:15 pm

      Thanks for taking the time out to do this, can be useful for silencing the critics. Actually every time I drive somewhere now I look at wide vehicles and see how easy it is for them to keep their lane. I also imagine what would happen if I’m going around something in the road while having a middle rear tire. Should be easy on both accounts, especially with safety pilot, which should stay in the lane better than a Tesla which likes to sway back and forth. Aptera says because of torque vectoring it won’t sway within lanes.

    • Titus Meusel

      Member
      September 19, 2021 at 1:46 am

      To have the complete picture you could add European parking lots of 2.5 m (minimum 2.3 m). Plus lane parking has mostly a width by just 2 m. And Teslas park rarely in my area – so the pods stick out. On the other hand the shape and overall height of the Aptera looks not as massiv as those brick shaped other cars plus doors opening to the sky. Aptera is discussing some minor changes for the European version. So I got to keep my feet calm until then – hoping such amendments might come at a later date.

      • Peter Jorgensen

        Member
        September 23, 2021 at 8:18 am

        Added. If you don’t have room for a Tesla you don’t have room for an Aptera. They’re both full size cars and it sounds like only mini-cars are suitable for you.

        • Titus Meusel

          Member
          September 23, 2021 at 9:50 pm

          Hi Peter, thanks for doing all these. I am probably as hooked by this car as you are. There are so many design aspects and fun following the engineering efforts that make me want this. Actually I did designs on Aptera as well (see my forum account). Only because of that I tried to evaluate how the car fits into my neighbourhood with mostly 2-meter-parallel parking. To illustrate this: I lost side mirrors of my Peugeot 206cc and have seen cyclists kicking of the mirrors of a car because they feel offended by … I guess the space cars claim in central Hamburg. But there are Teslas as well over here. So you are absolutely right: Sizewise the Aptera is comparable to a Tesla and before I was more in the market for a Honda-e (wich was a concept beauty but has mediocre figures). Since Aptera is addressing homogenisation issues for Europe I stop commenting on the width subject and stay curious on what they might come up with.

          • Titus Meusel

            Member
            September 23, 2021 at 10:02 pm

            P.s.: Cool you added the Nobe.

          • Peter Jorgensen

            Member
            September 24, 2021 at 7:42 am

            Totally agree. The design philosophy is what we need. I do hope Aptera makes a smaller car too. Supposedly there’s a little super-efficient EV being built for pizza delivery and uber eats, etc that is much smaller but still very efficient. It has the front wheels in the body. Only 100 mile range though.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 23, 2021 at 8:08 am

    EU 2.5M parking stalls – No problem here.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 23, 2021 at 8:09 am

    EU 2.3M parking stalls – Aptera is right to the lines. Also some cars won’t even be able to open their doors enough to get out. It’s a really tight squeeze.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 23, 2021 at 8:12 am

    Parallel Parking – EU – Model X doesn’t fit, Aptera doesn’t fit. Model 3 barely fits if you fold the mirrors. If this is your situation then your city doesn’t have room for Aptera or the Model X. You should look into the Nobe, Honda E, etc or a motorcycle. Or an ID-3, which we can’t get over here. At least you might be able to import an Aptera.

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    September 23, 2021 at 8:13 am

    Parallel parking in the US – 8 foot width, no problem. Aptera sticks out as much as a full size truck, but not really any more. If someone hits your front wheel pants at that point they probably would have hit anything.

    • Philip Raymond

      Member
      September 23, 2021 at 10:38 am

      Peter, these shots you have posted are very useful and should not be limited to this forum. You should email Aptera and suggest they add them to their webpage, where they have an overview of the vehicles features.

  • Stanislav Jaracz

    Member
    September 23, 2021 at 7:18 pm

    OK, so we have lots of top view images suggesting the width is not a problem. Thank you.

    How about parking? The driver next to me will be pulling out and turning. They won’t see the low pods. Only the chassis. What if the pods will have problems at parking lots?

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      September 24, 2021 at 7:40 am

      Always park nose-in and you shouldn’t have an issue. You’re as likely to get hit as a corvette with low front fenders.

      Ultimately we’ll have to wait for driving reviews to get a better idea of things.

    • Paul Evans

      Member
      September 27, 2021 at 2:47 pm

      Looking at the Aptera’s sideview, you might be able pull forward much more than many other cars. You could even hang its nose over the curb, perhaps even up to the leading edge of the pods!

      But you might need to worry about the odd pedestrian texting on their phone, not paying attention to where they’re going, and tripping over nose! Just sayin’! 🙄

  • Hans Marius Torgersen

    Member
    September 28, 2021 at 3:19 am

    Isn’t the easiest solution simply redesigning/removing the wheel pods? I think I’ve read somewhere that removing them reduces the width by about 10 inches. Not sure how big of an effect it would have on drag, though. And if the turn signal is on the wheel pods they might have to be relocated. Seems to be the easiest solution by far to me.

    • Harry Parker

      Moderator
      September 28, 2021 at 10:38 am

      10 inches would be 5 inches per side. No way the wheel covers extend 5 in. from the outer edge of the tire. I’d guess less than 2 inches.

      Anyway, fenders exist for a safety reason on all cars, as well as to reduce drag. They prevent the throwing of mud, water, snow & stones. It’s illegal in most places to drive without wheel covers on public roads.

      • Hans Marius Torgersen

        Member
        September 28, 2021 at 1:00 pm

        Take a look at Arcimoto to see what I mean could be doable to reduce width. The Aptera wheel pods look like they add something like 5 inches per side to me, but maybe Aptera can clarify?

    • Titus Meusel

      Member
      September 28, 2021 at 10:42 am

      These look like they have a minimum offset.

      • Hans Marius Torgersen

        Member
        September 28, 2021 at 1:02 pm

        Yes something like this, which is similar to what Arcimoto uses.

    • Peter Jorgensen

      Member
      September 28, 2021 at 1:52 pm

      Hans,

      The width of Aptera with the wheel pants removed is 83.8 inches or 2.13 meters for the Alpha versions, from outside of the tire rubber to outside of tire rubber.

      This means you get 2 inches (5cm) on either side if you remove the wheel pants.

      The front wheel covers are called wheel pants and the rear cover is the wheel skirt.

      • Hans Marius Torgersen

        Member
        September 29, 2021 at 5:19 pm

        Thank you for the information Peter.

        That’s impressively little added width.

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