Wheel, Yoke, or Stick?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Wheel, Yoke, or Stick?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Wheel, Yoke, or Stick?

  • Wheel, Yoke, or Stick?

  • John Trotter

    Member
    August 29, 2021 at 6:00 pm

    What are the thoughts about steering: wheel, yoke, or stick? The current format is a squashed square wheel, which seem functionally not far from the new Tesla yoke, except the Aptera still has stalks. Ideally, designers could get real-world feedback from Tesla owners who actually have the stalkless yoke and see if the simple elegance is in fact a good idea. (Non-users, like myself, would have no vote.) In theory, it is a simplification and, as such, would fit the Aptera design ethos.

    Beyond that, however, it seems to me that torque vectoring requires a degree of drive-by-wire and that in turn should allow stick control, a la jet fighters. This would provide even more forward crash space. It would also allow the big screen to move toward the driver a bit.

    The stalkless yoke would probably be too big a change for the first edition, but who knows? Obviously, stick-control is only a distant option, but this group might want to discuss.

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    August 29, 2021 at 6:57 pm

    Tesla’s yoke and stalkless control is a dreadful idea. I have the Model 3, the windshield wipers have to be controlled from the screen or via voice, that was a mistake on Tesla’s part, you can get one swipe from the button on one of the stalks but you can’t turn them on and off that way, if the autowipers worked perfectly it wouldn’t matter but that function doesn’t work very well. You should be able to do all of the important functions from the steering wheel via touch without having to look away from the road. Tesla also put capacitive buttons on the yoke, another bad idea. You should be able to do everything without looking and know that you’ve engaged the function purely by feel. The gear shift should also be a stalk in the wheel, Tesla got this right on the 3 but not on the new S. I had a Volt before the Tesla, they put the shifter in the center console instead of on the wheel, they wanted it to look like a four on the floor manual. But EVs don’t have transmissions let alone manuals, wasting space in the center is idiotic. The Volt’s shifter was also unreliable, I had to have mine replaced, it was done under warranty but something as simple as the forward and reverse controls in an EV should never fail.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    August 29, 2021 at 8:33 pm

    I think, in all cases regarding user interface engineering, we need a reasonable size sample of Aptera driver experience to get a “Majority” perspective on what is good and what needs to change in the next iteration of the Aptera should it be another three wheel or a four wheel version. That won’t come for a while.

    At any rate, theses discussions are moot as the engineering is complete on Beta (Now need to build and test) and we will see only small adjustments from now through to Delta.

    At any rate, I personally am overjoyed to get an Aptera as currently configured which in my view, is bleeding edge progress in the EV world.

  • Bob Kirchner Kirchner

    Member
    August 30, 2021 at 3:56 pm

    In the absence of some proven, consequential advantage, I’d prefer to stick to traditional controls. Especially, I think purely drive by wire controls with no physical link should be avoided.

  • rich garlick

    Member
    August 30, 2021 at 5:18 pm

    build it and they will come….

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    August 30, 2021 at 6:29 pm

    old forum had thread about steering wheel alternative, one of them was arm actuated levers mechanically connected to wheels (or maybe just fighter pilot video game joytsick), with existing motor torque vectoring held like joystick and maybe with air pressure torque multiplication.

    as jhon said, this was for that benefit to allow more space for airbag to de compress with body pushing against it toward dashboard to allow more cushioning,

    but it also to can allow ones arms to be rested on height adjustable arm rests instead of holding them up constantly on long drives vs normal wheel, and to allow dashboard (of normal car) to be closer to windshield field of view so it takes less time to change focus between display and windshield, and to allow more compact space toward front of cabin vs the middle part for sharper thus more font aerodynamic front end and less weight (similar to airel atom 4). also how about if the middle screen is not as big of a square and rather its a half size rectangle and the other half can exist at a dashboard more in line of sight of driver to make it quicker to change focus from looking at the outside to dashboard and back onto road, although phone app with optional USB mic attachment for voice command concepts from old forum are better at least for budget purpose oriented customer (which is i bet is most people and increasingly so as things generally become more expensive).

    f steering wheel proves still better somehow and if max size driver ends up having knees near steering wheel in future cars, steering wheel can be smaller and removable like a ariel atom to allow person to get in and out easier or else driver would have to compact his first leg going in against his stomach or get it over the steering wheel. if aptera gets narrower then it would be more of a sporty car and in that case it becomes more sensible to have 3 spoke circle steering wheel that allows hands and thumbs to grip around it.

  • John Schwartz

    Member
    September 6, 2021 at 11:55 am

    It must be a steering wheel and it must be round, for me. Must work with gloves, ie: no silly capacitive buttons on wheel. Lots of people live in cold climates and wear gloves while driving. Capacitive buttons and touch screens are useless in this environment. Yes, there are driving gloves with capacitive friendly finger pads. I have them. They barely work, but mostly not. I have a vehicle with a heated steering wheel. It’s nice, but does not mitigate the need to wear gloves.

    Since Tesla came out with the yoke option, I started to keep track of where I actually hold the steering wheel while driving. 60% of the time I hold it at about 7:00, and 40% of the time I hold it at 1:30 during normal driving. I usually drive with one hand on the wheel because I find it to be far more stable in straight sections and easier to manage most winding roads. In tight turns, the wheel of course goes ‘round, and you may need to grip it anywhere. In all of these cases a yoke or squared off wheel is useless as a driving control as it is not physically present where it needs to be. The people who I see driving holding the wheel at 9-3 scare me because they are generally all over their lane as they can’t hold the vehicle stable in that configuration. 10-2 is slightly better, but it’s very tiring for any substantial duration of driving. Most, not all by any means, but most seasoned drivers I see on the road, do not use 9-3 or 10-2 positions, likely for these reasons.

    I fail to see why anyone would want any kind of a stick to control a vehicle that can move in only two dimensions. Yes, they are available for people who cannot use their legs to operate pedals, but they are slow and cumbersome compared to traditional controls. They are more optimal for an aircraft which must be controlled in three dimensions. The same can be said of yokes. They work in aircraft because they have auto pilot, so you don’t need to hold it straight for long periods, or how accurately you hold it straight is not particularly important, and the amount of left/right deflection you need is minimal.

    • Joshua Rosen

      Member
      September 6, 2021 at 3:11 pm

      I hold my wheel at 8 and 4 which is both comfortable and the modern recommended positions, 8 and 4 are just stumps on Tesla’s yoke. So are the old locations, 10 and 2 which were recommended in my youth, that was before airbags. When they put in airbags they moved the position to 8 and 4 so that your arms don’t get blasted by the airbag if it goes off.

      It should be noted that the first thing Randy Pobst and Blake Fuller did when they prepared their Plaids to climb Pikes Peak and Mount Washington respectively was to replace the Plaid’s yoke with a Model 3 wheel. They both regarded the yoke as dangerous, Fuller refers to it as the Joke steering wheel.

  • Kenneth Bolinsky

    Member
    September 6, 2021 at 3:18 pm

    The shoe button was the PERFECT method for holding shoes on the foot and it worked for CENTURIES! There was NO REASON to ever give up button shoes! Entire generations of families worked in the shoe-button-making industry AND in the buttonhook making industry and there was absolutely no reason to take away their livelihoods!

    And what for? The SHOELACE! Has there ever been a more STUPID and USELESS and POINTLESS invention? NEVER! They break. They untie. They can be used to STRANGLE and MAIM! Countless people have DIED from tripping over an untied shoelace and WHY? Because some designer decided we needed to change away from the tried and true shoe button.

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