Tesla FSD

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Tesla FSD

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Tesla FSD

  • Tesla FSD

     Morris Wilder updated 1 week ago 13 Members · 27 Posts
  • David Maddon

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 5:49 pm

    Now that Tesla has confirmed they will offer FSD to other makers who wants Aptera to offer it as an option?

  • BRUCE MENGLER

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 7:29 pm

    Please post URL that documents TESLA is offering FSD to non-Tesla EVs

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 9, 2021 at 9:18 pm

      It was announced at the Tesla shareholder meeting this week. Use google.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    October 9, 2021 at 7:39 pm

    I drive a Tesla Model3. I do not want Aptera to adopt the Tesla product which would be way to expensive and currently under scrutiny for safety issues. The GM product is rated as better than Tesla’s FSD.

    I would suggest that if Tesla is making such a statement, it is only aimed at making revenue. All automakers currently making EVs have their own product. Why would they abandon their product (Nothing, not even Tesla is certified above Level II) and pay licensing fees to Tesla for something no better than they have.

    • David Maddon

      Member
      October 9, 2021 at 9:18 pm

      Well no FSD under review and not a single FSD vehicle has ever been in an accident and if you don’t want it don’t buy it. Why does your opinion about it mean I should not have the option? GM’s product in no way compares to FSD nor is GM offering it for use by other manufacturers. Aptera doesn’t have an autonomous system nor are they planing to develop one. Considering as of now the Tesla cars are the safest cars ever made I want their system.


      • Ken Bolinsky

        Member
        October 9, 2021 at 9:23 pm

        Be fair, though: Even FSD isn’t actually FSD yet – it’s still considered to be a Level 2 autonomous system, albeit with more bells and whistles than any other system currently available…

        • David Maddon

          Member
          October 9, 2021 at 9:34 pm

          Anyone who didn’t watch the Tesla Q3 might not realize they just hired a huge amount of the AI engineering pool and no question the cream of the crop since AI day. My mother was a pioneer in AI and while I know little about it. I know who the excepts are and from the one I watched respond to AI day his opinion is it’s game over. It was on Dave Lee Investing if you want to see it. Link below All I am asking is make the Aptera compatible so it can be offered as an option. If this is supposed to be a lifetime generational car. It must offer this as much of the highway system will be off limits to non fully autonomous cars in 25 years or less.

          https://youtu.be/X5MYSQmvz-0

          • John Malcom

            Member
            October 10, 2021 at 6:41 pm

            David, you may want to check Elon’s announcement on 10/10. He has delayed the beta release of the latest FSD due to safety concerns. Beta means it is still in testing, not release for use. FSD has been involved in four crashes currently under investigation by The NHTSA

          • John Malcom

            Member
            October 13, 2021 at 2:07 pm

            I am not sure what hiring a bunch of AI employees has to do with Aptera’s choice of Level II Driver Assist product.?

      • John Malcom

        Member
        October 10, 2021 at 6:20 pm

        Simple solution. Buy a Tesla. Aptera will offer level 2 by someone else.

  • John Belmonte

    Member
    October 10, 2021 at 3:01 am

    Actually Comma / OpenPilot has the best-rated L2 driving [1], and by definition the platform is open to integrations by any car OEM. Besides a better experience, the technology is ahead of Tesla in a few aspects such as driver monitoring and having a full end-to-end machine learning model.

    Comma and Aptera happen to be neighbors in San Diego, and there’s evidence that they’re already talking.

    I’d be skeptical of Tesla offering their jewels to other car OEM’s. When will it be available? Will it be crippled somehow vs. their native offering? Do you want Aptera at the licensing mercy of Tesla?

    [1] https://data.consumerreports.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/consumer-reports-active-driving-assistance-systems-november-16-2020.pdf

    • SonicMustang

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 1:42 am

      I wouldn’t buy anything related to or sold by Elon Musk. He is a carnival barker with legions of morons who believe everything he says. He also uses customers as unpaid beta testers. Germany forbade him from calling his driver assists auto pilot. A few years ago, he made Tesla patents available to anyone, including automobile manufacturers. Nobody took up his offer.

      Look at the disaster that is the Boring Company. He “shafted” Las Vegas by promising a high speed underground people mover and delivering Teslas driven through a small one lane tunnel at a whopping 35MPH. Oh, by the way, the tunnel is too narrow to open the doors of a Tesla fully. Can’t wait for the inevitable Tesla battery fire.

      • John Malcom

        Member
        October 13, 2021 at 10:40 am

        HHmmmm tells us how you really feel about Musk and Tesla😉

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    October 10, 2021 at 9:29 am

    It’s way to early to incorporate a Level 4 or 5 system from anyone because no such system exists yet. I have FSD on my Model 3 and it’s not close to working yet and it might never work although it has gotten better over time. Waymo kinda works in Phoenix and only Phoenix, that’s the least challenging place you can imagine because it hardly ever rains and never snows, but even there Waymo needs remote drivers to take over when the cars get stuck. Waymo’s approach doesn’t scale because it’s reliant on hyper-accurate maps and extremely expensive sensors. Tesla has painted themselves into a corner because they started to sell FSD prematurely, about 10 years prematurely. They locked themselves into a sensor suite that they could offer in 2016 which at the time was eight camera’s and a radar sensor. They’ve recently doubled down on their sensor choice by going camera only and deleting the radar. The argument that people can drive and they have only two eyes makes about as much sense as saying birds can fly and they don’t have jet engines so planes don’t need jet engines.

    I do think someone will crack the code and develop a true self driving system but it’s years away. For now it’s best to stick to things that do work like advanced driver assist. For now I think lane keep, lane departure assist, proximity warnings and dumb summon are features that I won’t give up, as other features get proven then they should be added.

    As a side note, I’d like to see front view camera’s as well as side view and rear view. Front view camera’s would make the job of parking easier because it will allow you to see the lines in front of you. Someday I’d like a self parking system that works, Tesla’s doesn’t, but if they just give me better visibility that would be a step forward.

    One more comment. Level 2 self driving systems serve no purpose, it’s harder to closely monitor a car than to just drive it. If your hand’s are on the wheel then why not steer the car yourself, as for system’s like Cadillac which allow you to take your hand’s off the wheel and just track your eyes to see if you are paying attention, those are more dangerous because you only have a fraction of a second to take over and having to grab the wheel when your hands are elsewhere increases the delay.

  • raytoews

    Member
    October 10, 2021 at 9:47 am

    FSD is smoke and mirrors like pilot less aircraft. Level 2 is what is required.

    An example, a few years ago I installed a simple autopilot in my aircraft, follows a GPS and the decrease in the level of fatigue after 4 hrs was remarkable. Driving will be the same.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    October 10, 2021 at 11:03 am

    Until level 4+ is solidly reached the system requires supervision to be safe. As a result level 2 simplifies the driving process to essentially the same level while being safe. Aptera already has a ton on their plate shipping a in mass production. FSD technology isn’t an easy bolt in.

    <font face=”inherit”>It is mentally difficult to be ready to takeover with anything wrong a vehicle might do so this current middle ground isn’t functionally very useful; obviously its a critical middle stage and eventually true level 5 FSD will happen but probably </font>at least<font face=”inherit”> 15 years away (especially for legal signoffs)</font>

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    October 10, 2021 at 7:48 pm

    i dont want to have to trust automaker with self driving software that can be controlled online live, i suspect people will pay to kill targets like that but maybe they wont if media spreads news over every accident given that would presumably break trust and give way to a competitor, but that takes time. one way to spread news of a incident is to dashcam record, if software fails to record than it will be a matter of suspicion to spread news about.

    this can be solved by giving software update by USB and returning the USB by mail with GPS tracking in case of theft/damage. presumably the customer order is done so the model identity isnt known by manufacturer selling the update. so they’ll have to cost a lot of lives to target one, that is if they think their targets even buy updates. and yes, they’ll even software disable features until you pay for it.

    apple airdrop for any device would be cool for quick exchanging documents and contacts to physically nearby people, like making references when talking to someone on public transport, at work etc, but it could also help in pinging people physical on the same road who witnessed a incident. to prevent spam trolling (unwanted ping) the app would auto delete things after some time, but if people witness something they could check to see if others managed to record it. with social media, this can be helpful if the recorded file is like PDF in that its a recognizable file, similar to how youtube livestream video is not editable unlike a normal video, so its a way of knowing a video isnt photoshop etc like that video of a model 3 exploding on its own. in comes the apple google glasses.

    youll also notice how things are being rented rather than owned, from homes and so far lesser extent, cars. far less people/organizations own anything, so the fewer competitors means its easier to jack up rental prices, and of course they can take away what your renting if their paid to do it by some political opposition. even if your ok with being more of a debt slave and hope somone else will fix things, those “somone elses” will have a far harder time with trends like this.

  • Daniel Gray

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 12:15 pm

    Keep it open:
    Please equip the vehicle with plenty of sensors ( forward facing, rear and side-facing cameras, and ultrasonic range sensors ) and the ability to interface with autopilot ( Comma.ai, Tesla autopilot, etc. ).

    Ideally:
    Allow customers to decide to add Comma.ai, or decide to purchase a Tesla FSD subscription, or opt-in to other solutions. There will be other competitors. Let the market decide, but maybe default with Comma.ai since that is something that can be integrated now and offers pretty compelling performance. I would be willing to pay a premium on top of Comma’s equipment and software price for the convenience of it being already integrated into the vehicle. Ideally with some customization on the UI to interface with the Aptera console. OpenPilot being open source really adds to that argument.

    I believe in the “long” run (1-2 years) it would be difficult to compete with Tesla for driver-assist / autonomous features – but who knows. There are a lot of very smart people working on the problem.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 2:00 pm

      Daniel, most of the sentiment here is no or not ready for prime time.

      Beta prototype engineering is complete and Beta build underway. The betas will be very close to production vehicles as they will be the vehicles to go through testing. So, whatever Aptera decided on for Level II Driver Support is what we will get if we order driver support in our Apteras. This also applies to the sensor suit. No reason to add sensors that will not be used in an iteration of a vehicle.

      I trust the Aptera engineers did a good job of evaluating what was available to integrate in the time frame they had in their Dev schedule. We don’t know what that is yet, but I will be satisfied with it if I chose to order Driver Assist. I have Tesla’s Autopilot enabled in my Model 3 and very seldom use it. I am old school and like to drive my cars myself, one of the reasons I am switching to an Aptera.

      Comma.ai requires its own piece of hardware I believe and the latest version of Tesla’s FSD is just starting beta test. With four accidents being investigated by the government where FSD was involved, I don’t trust FSD. My personal belief, neither products were candidates for an Aptera integration at the window of opportunity for incorporation, but we won’t know for sure until Aptera announces it.

      The value of the Aptera lies in it being the most efficient ground transportation available in the world. If Aptera does not have Comma.ai and or FSD and that is a deal breaker, then you should buy a Tesla.

      I am sure you would be able to find a third party to do a custom integration after you have purchased your Aptera. But for Aptera to expend resources (Time and money) to integrate another piece of hardware and two software applications, one being share ware, for a potentially small group of users doesn’t make good business sense.

  • Morris Wilder

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 1:41 pm

    FSD…

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 2:20 pm

      TKS!

      J

  • Morris Wilder

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 1:48 pm

    “Lucid’s co-pilot uses 32 sensors including 14 cameras, five radar units, four cameras, and ultrasonic sensors throughout the vehicle exterior, and driver monitoring to help drive on highways and for parking.” I wonder how well their system will work.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 2:24 pm

      A lot of stuff! Hopefully with all of that hardware and their software they won’t run into stationary emergency vehicles like another vendor does. I read a review that said their driver tracking was particularly good. Only time will tell.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        October 13, 2021 at 3:16 pm

        Sounds like a lot of weight and cost in equipment, mounting points, and wiring. Tesla’s system achieves amazing results with less weight.

        That said until we are deep into level 4/5 I don’t see a lot of use. Level 2 addresses the safety and convenience issues just as well as current Tesla FSD due to the need to remain be alert.

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 4:28 pm

    The simplest thing for Aptera to do would be to avoid adding a data packet security gateway on the implementation of their CAN bus. This would make the Aptera comma.ai compatible. This is a trivial adjustment, even if done much later in their development cycle. The comma community would likely swoop in and quickly implement comma/OP. Done. No additional use of Aptera internal resources and users could add the comma hardware. The recently released comma3 is a windshield-mounted device with 2 front-facing cameras and a fisheye rear-facing camera that can see adjacent lanes and behind the vehicle. One device, leading level 2+ driving. No added Aptera development time. I don’t see a downside here.

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 5:53 pm

      Any effort that is not needed is a waste. Aptera has an implemented solution that is in the Beta build. if it includes Comma.ai good. If not, then we are past the point of including it.

      So from your post I see a potential change in CAN bus architecture; integration of hardware; the word “Likely” connected with swoop in and implement comma/OP. And then you claim no Aptera effort needed, imply no risk or schedule impact and say nothing about agreements and effort already expended with other software vendors.

      And if all of this is done, what benefit does Aptera realize above and beyond what they would get from their current solution?

      I’ll bet you have a bridge you would like to sell me in NY real cheap😄

      • Morris Wilder

        Member
        October 13, 2021 at 7:32 pm

        Have to say I’m learning a bit from you guys. I’m strictly medical and it definitely helps to interact with folks who have experience with the technical and financial aspects of me getting my Aptera vehicle next year 😁

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