Support Union ?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Support Union ?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions Support Union ?

  • Support Union ?

     Nathan Bendall updated 1 month ago 6 Members · 19 Posts
  • Michael Jarvis

    Member
    November 4, 2021 at 10:35 am

    will Aptera allow/support union labor force in manufacturing? This may impact the tax rebate options as well.

  • Paul Evans

    Member
    November 4, 2021 at 10:55 am

    Already asked and answered. Search for “Union” and you will find a lengthy discussion there. Enjoy!

  • Joshua Rosen

    Member
    November 4, 2021 at 1:33 pm

    The Union rebate is for four wheel cars only.

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    November 4, 2021 at 2:53 pm

    Generally a company wont be into a union situation when they first start. This takes time and considerable grievances between management and employees to form a movement for unionization.

    I feel unions aren’t needed if employees are well treated and are largely unnecessary due to modern labor laws. Personally I feel the idea the rebate is bound to union status is largely an anti-tesla tactic by special interest.

    • kerbe2705

      Member
      November 4, 2021 at 6:51 pm

      On the other hand it could have absolutely nothing to do with Tesla and be all about encouraging legacy auto makers to expand their EV offerings to meet the demands of customers who wish to take advantage of the rebates.

      • Curtis Cibinel

        Member
        November 4, 2021 at 9:07 pm

        I won’t respond beyond saying “I disagree” due to forum policies on politics.

      • Joshua Rosen

        Member
        November 5, 2021 at 7:34 am

        Of course it’s all about Tesla. Suppose Tesla were to put Ford and GM out of business, why would that matter except to Biden’s union supporters. Tesla is an American company, it’s workers are American. And BTW so are the workers at VW’s plant in Chatanooga where they are going to build the ID.4.

        The union credit is about the survival of the UAW not the American auto industry.

        • kerbe2705

          Member
          November 5, 2021 at 12:24 pm

          Please explain how the UAW will directly benefit from a rebate given to those who purchase vehicles? Nissan, btw, has unionized workers at their factories everywhere in the world EXCEPT at those in the US. VW workers are unionized everywhere in the world EXCEPT at their factories in the deep south.

          Perhaps it’s not a conspiracy: Remember how the previous administration sought to make “buying and building American” more inviting by adding import tariffs on goods produced abroad – like GM products built in Mexico? Maybe this administration is trying to incentivize “buying and building American” by encouraging consumers to support the products produced by legacy manufacturers, thus stimulating those manufacturers to produce a greater range of eligible products.

          The median US individual income in 2020 was $44,225 – the estimated income necessary to produce a tax liability (and, thus, a tax rebate) of $7500 was $54,000. Tesla vehicles are selling at such an incredible rate that demand is exceeding production: Do people really require an incentive to purchase a Tesla? Tesla vehicles are “aspirational” for many in the US – what is needed to increase EV adoption is a greater range of vehicles at a wider variety of price-points (as well as charging infrastructure). Chrysler, for example, offers only one EV in the US – and it’s a PHEV – while their Stellantis partners offer several different EV models in other markets around the world.

          • Joshua Rosen

            Member
            November 5, 2021 at 1:20 pm

            The UAW benefits because it increases the demand for GM and Ford vehicles at the expense of Tesla, the other startups and the foreign owned factories in the US.

            • Joshua Rosen

              Member
              November 5, 2021 at 1:27 pm

              I’d prefer if there was no rebate at all, let the market pick the winners and losers. I’d much rather see a gradual gas tax increase. I’d suggest adding 25 cents a gallon every year until the percentage of EVs in new car sales reaches 25%. Buyers of new cars would know that gas is going to get more expensive over time which will incentivize them to buy EVs, instead of costing the government money it will raise money for infrastructure. At the same time should they add tolling to all Federal highways to hedge against the day that gas tax revenue starts to drop. When the percentage of new car is 25% EV they should then start to gradually raise the tolls to compensate for the drop in gas tax revenue.

            • Curtis Cibinel

              Member
              November 5, 2021 at 1:35 pm

              That would be far simpler. The rebate is complicated as they try to integrate special interest and protectionism into a very complicated issue. The usual concern is potential that gas taxation will hurt the economy but this tax is still revenue which could fund other tax breaks. It is essentially a basic form of carbon tax.

  • Nathan Bendall

    Member
    November 5, 2021 at 5:12 pm

    Here are my two cents for what it is worth. Aptera Motors Corp. is helping to redefine what transportation could be like in the Age of Global Warming. In other news, our Society is facing severe wealth inequality issues that have not been seen since the 1920s! There are the haves and the haves nots. Aptera Motors Corp. could become a leader in the fight against Wealth Inequality. It seems to me that there are two main political groups in our Capitalist Economic System currently. There are the Workers (Labor) and the Investors (Capital). I have a possible solution up my sleeve to help resolve this important societal issue. My solution is called a Worker Cooperative (Worker Co-op). A Worker Cooperative (Worker Co-op) is a privately owned company that is 100% owned and operated by the workers themselves and no one else. When workers have a real financial stake (and not just a token financial stake) in the company that they work for, they tend to work much harder and care much more deeply about what they are doing rather than just trying to earn a paycheck there. Plus, they can earn much better financial compensation for themselves due to both their wages for their labor and dividends from their co-op investment. The biggest issue that I see right now is the ownership structure of the co-op. Basically, who owns what and why? Chris and Steve do not want to repeat the mistakes of the past ever again! Unfortunately, they both lost majority control of Aptera Motors Inc. by a hostile business takeover years ago. Aptera Motors Inc. investors thought they should go big or go home so to speak to try to make as much money as quickly as possible rather than relying on a slow and steady wins the race business approach. The Board of Directors led by Idealab put everything on the line in the unlikely hopes of winning a big business loan from the U.S. Department of Energy. Chris and Steve were replaced by Paul Wilbur, a businessman from Detroit, MI., USA. Paul Wilbur basically did not understand what he was doing at all. He helped to bankrupt several companies even before his time at Aptera Motors Inc. He helped to run Aptera Motors Inc. straight into the ground with everyone watching helplessly from afar. My solution to this ownership question is to help split the company’s ownership structure into two main groups. The first group of this company ownership structure would be 100% owned by Chris and Steve. It would consist of all of the Aptera Motors Corp. I.P. (Intellectual Property) Rights. They would be paid royalty rights of 1% of all profits for allowing Aptera Motors Co-op the right to use their I.P. Rights on a yearly basis. The second group of this company ownership structure would be 100% owned by all the Aptera Motors Corp. Employees (including Chris and Steve due to them being current employees of Aptera Motors Corp.) working there. It would consist of the Physical Property Rights (Real Estate, Bank Accounts, Raw Materials, Finished Vehicles and Etc.). In the unfortunate event of another bankruptcy, Chris and Steve would still retain their Full ownership rights of Aptera Motors Corp. I.P. (Trademarks, customer lists and etc.) They both could then try to restart Aptera Motors Corp. sometime later down the road when business conditions improve somewhat. The Aptera Motors Corp. Employees would have their entire financial stake in Aptera Motors Corp. be completely liquidated into hard cold cash on the barrel head so to speak. Unfortunately, all Aptera Motors Corp. Employees would lose a lot of money in their Aptera Motors Corp. Co-op Investments. However, they would still probably come out on top at the end of the day due to all the extra money they would have earned from their investor dividends in the Aptera Motors Cop-op rather than just being wage earning employees working there. Both sides would win at the end of the day by working together instead of fighting each other for table scraps. So how do we exactly help to pay for this Aptera Motors Co-op Idea to begin with? First off, all the Aptera Motors Corp. Employees would have to agree to setting up an Individual Worker Co-op Savings Account at their local bank or credit union. They would then be asked to please invest a portion of their weekly paycheck into their Individual Worker Co-op Savings Accounts. The more money that they invest in themselves via the co-op over the long-haul means having complete ownership of Aptera Motors Co-op sooner rather than later. It will help pay for itself in the long run here. I would suggest anywhere from 10% to 25% of a worker’s weekly paycheck to help bring this Co-op idea to life! Let us say that each employee gets paid $20.00 (USD) per hour. They work a 40-hour workweek. So, each employee would earn $20.00 (USD) per hour times 40-hour workweek equals $800.00 (USD) earned per workweek before any expenses are taken out. Let us say that every employee invests 10% of their total paycheck into the Aptera Motors Corp. Co-op Fund. So, $800.00 (USD) per workweek divided by ten (10% stake) equals $80.00 (USD) invested per workweek. $80.00 (USD) invested per workweek times 48 weeks in a year equals $3,840.00 (USD) per year. Let us say that there are now 30 Employees working at the Aptera Motors Corp. Co-op. So, 30 Aptera Motors Co-op Employees times $3,840.00 (USD) invested per year by each employee equals $115,200.00 (USD) raised per year through all the employee investments in the co-op. So, let’s say that Aptera Motors Co-op 2021 Valuation is $3,363,000.00 (USD). So Aptera Motors Co-op 2021 Valuation is $3,363,000.00 (USD) divided by $115,200.00 (USD) per year equals 30 Years to fully pay back all of Aptera Motors Corp. Shareholders (Investors). Plus, Aptera Motors Co-op Employees could also use their Co-op Investment Dividends (reinvest) to help pay back Aptera Motors Corp. Shareholders (Investors) sooner rather than later. However, all of the Outside Aptera Motors Corp. Shareholders (Investors) would at least eventually be paid back in full once and for all. Then Aptera Motors Co-op Employees will no longer have to listen to outside investors ever again! So Hostile Business Takeovers are prevented from ever taking place again! At the end of the day, business profits from all business operations could be paid out in five different ways once all the business expenses have been paid off in full first. These five different ways are: 1.) 20%- Aptera Motors Corp. Employee Shareholder Dividends. 2.) 20%- A Company’s Savings Account for a Rainy Day (Still need business insurance though.). 3.) 20%- Business Expansion (Business Growth) Plans. 4.) 20%- 0% Interest Free Bank Loans to other companies wanting to eventually become proud worker co-ops for the sake and betterment of their employees. 5.) 20%- The Co-op Employees Retirement Fund. When they choose to retire from the Co-op, all Co-op employees are required to sell back their Co-op Investment Stake back to the Co-op Employees Retirement Fund (20%). No exceptions! We sadly cannot allow any outside investors (non-workers) to be able to invest in the Co-op anymore to help prevent loss of employee control of the Co-op. In case of a possible Co-op’s Bankruptcy, investing all your life savings in one business can be a risky undertaking. So, a Co-op Mutual Fund Partnership Agreement could be established with a lot of other Co-ops worldwide and eventually on Mars to help spread out the risk of investment lost through financial diversification of investments. Most Co-op employees probably want to help support other Co-ops through their shopping trips using their hard-earned money. It can be hard sometimes to be able to quickly identify Co-op produced products from For-Profit Companies during shopping trips. Co-ops could rename their business name from Inc./Corp. to Co-op. So Aptera Motors Corp. could be renamed the Aptera Motors Co-op. When Aptera Motors Co-op buys back all of our shareholder (non-employee) equity stakes, Aptera Motors Co-op could pay an extra 10% to 30% Interest on top to their non-employee shareholders (Outside Investors) to help make sure that everyone feels that their financial assistance was very much appreciative. The last thing that I want to leave with you today is to think a little bit more about is that financial capital (money) is easy to move around the World at a moment’s notice on a computer screen via the internet to help find the best possible investment opportunities in the world at that time. On the other hand, most employees have many barriers in their way to finding the best employment opportunities for themselves and their families. Some of these employment opportunities barriers are Language, Citizenship, Education, Personal Wealth, Job Skills and etc. A Co-op is not going to help solve all of the world’s serious problems once and for all. Unfortunately, the world will still have problems until the end of time. However, if we can help to reduce the suffering of at least some people by helping those people to be able to better provide for themselves and their families through Co-ops, then it is an idea that I think we should be willing to explore further for the Good of Humanity please. I want to thank you for your time and help. I hope you have a great day! So what do you all think? Thanks again, Nathan

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      November 5, 2021 at 5:47 pm

      Wow thats a big wall of text….

      In the current state of the company I cant see any way to make a transition to this kind of co-op. The existing investors through multiple funding rounds have been sold on a roadmap which will lead to an eventually come to an IPO. I suspect trying to peruse this would be a great way to get the company into a massive legal mess with what they have presented to investors.

      The concept of creating a structure as you suggest to protect IP rights remaining in a shell company to allow them to retry if they fail is also probably not legal.

      They have done very well in making investment possible for non-accredited investors which lets people with more reasonable incomes get involved in this vision. A complicated company structure and the idea of never having a path to any investor input is very hostile to investors and would really hamper investment in the company.

      • Nathan Bendall

        Member
        November 5, 2021 at 6:46 pm

        You have made some really good points here. Everyone here (and in society) keeps acting like their are only two options present- 1.) Union or 2.) No Union. A little background on me first. I am a Proud Essential Worker who work on the Frontlines during the Pandemic. My coworkers and I risk our lives to help make sure that our community remain well feed and stocked during this crisis. I still remember the night I went to work at my local grocery store when the Governor of Michigan declare the Lockdowns. We literally had people crying, scared and worried in the middle of the aisles. It was a complete mess. We did the best we could with what we had on hand. Society calls us heroes. Yet, my coworkers have to work two jobs and take care of their families while trying to figure out how to pay the bills on time. Life is a real struggle for a lot of people out there. I am fortunate that I still live with my Dad. I would be homeless otherwise. As Bob Dylan once sang, you do not need a weatherman to tell you which way the wind is blowing. Maybe a Co-Op is not the solution to our ills, maybe it is still a Union or something we have not even though about yet? What I do know is that the fabric of our society is slowly over time starting to come apart. The rich keep getting richer and the rest of us keep getting left behind further in the dust. I hope that I am completely wrong here. I hope that I am overreacting. However, the USA is getting closer to a Civil War everyday. It would look something like what happen to Yugoslav back in the Early 1990s. Thoughts? Thanks again, Nathan <b style=”font-family: inherit; font-size: inherit; letter-spacing: 0px;”><yt-formatted-string force-default-style=””>Feature History – Fall of Yugoslavia (1/2) </yt-formatted-string>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mxJjstwqMk

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