LiFePo batteries ?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions LiFePo batteries ?

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions LiFePo batteries ?

  • LiFePo batteries ?

  • Ian Collister

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 6:29 am

    Considering the trend towards range and safety rather than top end performance. The Chinese blade battery in the BYD EA1 dolphin with a much higher charge cycle and charge curve stats, any chance of a change to LiFePo instead of Lithium ion ?

    Obviously this depends on agreed supply contracts but as a already proven technology it would be an option. I here that a new battery presentation is planned.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 8:30 am

    I believe the battery team constantly evaluates current and emerging battery technology in conjunction with development and production schedules to insure the best technology is incorporated in the vehicle at the time of production.

    Currently, 2170 cells ( The same as in Teslas Model 3) have been selected for use in the Aptera Betas being built now. If other batteries are being considered, I will look forward with you to learning about them in a Makers presentation

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 9:01 am

  • Curtis Cibinel

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 9:03 am

    Right now I think the priority is getting the car out; 2170 is more than good enough and is necessary for the 1000 mile range headline grabbing variant. Since I don’t think byd is selling the blade they would need a different lfp form like that from catl and until they have more volume it’s probably an issue to source it. The pack would end up being a completely different piece of design since I don’t think lfp is generally made in cylindrical cells.

    That said once they start making cars it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if this is one of the first major things they change since the extra weight of lfp if used for the 250 and 400 would bring battery costs down and put the weights closer making the variations in the suspensions between models less. I suspect it would take 1-2 years. At those sizes the relative weight increases would be about 90 and 150lb resulting in a 5% efficiency loss for the 400 which would result in need for slightly more batteries.

  • John Locke

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 1:53 pm

    Considering that the Aptera is likely to be charged once a week or less, the number of charge cycles you can obtain out of the battery is not very important. 1500 cycles would equal 30 years of operation or 500,000 miles with a 40KWH battery. Shelf life is going to be more important. And that’s not considering the built-in solar charging. If you only charge once a month anyway, it’s irrelevant what battery technology they end up using. Weight and size become the dominant factors.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 2:25 pm

      They have never mentioned it but I would expect the solar to have a setting to prevent charging the battery past ~80%. Staying near 100% all summer due to solar would actually really eat into the battery longevity for NCA chemistry. Another advantage of LFP would be you could keep it 100% topped off without major risk

      • John Locke

        Member
        October 13, 2021 at 10:07 pm

        90% would be a good figure to aim for. That would still leave room for regen. Since we’re talking about 21700 batteries, 90% is what Tesla recommends for their packs. Either that or slap 10% extra KWH that is unusable by the driver at the top of the pack. If they use LFP cells for the 25 and 40 KWH batteries, it’s a moot point. LFP loves a full charge and the small weight differential for LFP might simplify suspension adjustments between models. the weight and size for a 40KWH LFP would be very close to the weight and size of a 60KWH NCA pack simplifying packaging.

  • Jörg Hucklenbroich

    Member
    October 15, 2021 at 3:19 am

    LFP batteries do not burn in a crash. So they are superior to Cobalt cells regarding safety. But they have a disadvatage in cold climate: They loose capacity. In my area I would expect about half range in winter with LFP. If I were to decide, I would use LTO cells. Disadvatage is, that we would loose range in summer, but probably gain range in winter. Benefit would be a very high cycle number, easily surving the life time of the Aptera and afterwards have a second life in the basement as a photovolataic battery or in a new Aptera. They are as safe as LiFePo, do not burn in a crash and can be charged almoust as fast as a capacitor. Their advatages easyliy outweigh the smaller range, espcecially due to constant charging in an Aptera. Consider what range you really need, if you can charge your batteries within 10 minutes ! That’s comparable to filling gas into a conventional car. 😀

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