CAN Bus

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions CAN Bus

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions CAN Bus

  • CAN Bus

     John Malcom updated 1 week ago 5 Members · 11 Posts
  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    October 12, 2021 at 5:59 pm

    Any information out there on CAN bust architecture for the Aptera? CAN 2.0? CAN-FD? Will Aptera protect its CAN data packets behind a security gateway? I ask since I am a longtime user of comma.ai/OpenPilot on my current vehicle and am curious if the Aptera CAN bus would be amenable to incorporating the comma/OP setup. …and yes, I am aware that Aptera is going to offer their own level 2 system but OpenPilot is very high level and it would be nice to have it ported to Aptera if the CAN bus isn’t locked down by Aptera.

  • John Malcom

    Member
    October 12, 2021 at 6:20 pm

    Not sure what Aptera’s motivation to do this would be if not already a part of the software architecture.

    As I understand it, OpenPilot is public share ware. I don’t see this as value add and the cost and time to accommodate would detract from the current plan for test and production. May also compromise current security architecture in ways not readily apparent at first. As share ware, Aptera would have to assume maintenance responsibility for their specific implementation for the life of the vehicle model or until it is deleted from the architecture.

    The Aptera software architecture is set and development well along with selected vendors for each component. Beta prototypes are being built for testing and will have a next to final integrated version of the software suit with only a few tweaks and bug fixes remaining if any.

    Also the information you are asking for is pretty sensitive and of course proprietary.

    But since we don’t know anything about the SW Architecture at this point, OpenPilot may be a part of it. They are Neighbors in San Diego after all

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    October 12, 2021 at 6:38 pm

    You misread. This isn’t a suggestion that Aptera invests time and/or resources regarding comma/OP. It is simply two areas of inquiry: 1) What CAN architecture will they use? and 2) Will they place a security gateway on the OBD2 port?

    GM and Toyota have comma/OP ports but some most recent model years now have further security gateways on the OBD2 port. Typically, connecting to the CAN bus at the front-facing camera helps bypass these new restrictions found at the OBD2 port.

    The comma/OP community ports to the new vehicles and then based on a vigorous set of safety criteria/testing, comma.ai can move a vehicle to their official supported status. Sometimes if the demand is present comma.ai buys a representative vehicle from a manufacturer and does the official ports themselves. I doubt there will be enough Aptera’s for comma.ai to take this route.

    Many vehicles with OEM level 2 are already ported as comma/OP is far superior to almost all OEM implementations. Only Tesla’s FSD is in the same league. Each has its own strengths/weaknesses. In fact, comma/OP happens to be ported to Tesla as well. The comma hardware is a standalone device that plugs into the CAN bus to access/control steering/acceleration/braking. There would be absolutely no development resource utilization required of Aptera.

    Finally, in a Consumer Report review of the main level 2 options published about November 2020, comma/OP was the #1 rated system. And, it was the only add-on system among those evaluated beating Tesla, GM Supercruise, and several others. Aptera may surprise us but I doubt they will ship with a better level 2 system than comma/OP.

    So, this is a valid topic for those of us wishing to consider the best level 2 options for our future Aptera.

    Paul

    • John Malcom

      Member
      October 13, 2021 at 8:03 am

      Not a miss. Perhaps you missed the point of the post.

      Mr. Belmonte posted the CEO video on your question with the specific wording.

      – a lot of solutions being considered

      – want to integrate a Full solution not develop their own. (This is a part of there overall engineering approach)

      – at the time of the video, saw a lot of demos but no solution selected

      Whatever the solution chosen or the CAN bus architecture specified based on their design criteria, Aptera has chosen not to disclose it at this time.

      This forum is not consistently monitored. If you would like to ask your question directly you may want to use the form in contact us. All questions submitted there will be answered. It may take a little time. And of course, answers are subject to proprietary constraints.

      The Consumer Reports evaluation you referenced list Cadillac Super Cruise number one and Teams FSD as number two for fully implemented driver assists.

  • John Belmonte

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 5:13 am

    > I am aware that Aptera is going to offer their own level 2 system but OpenPilot is very high level and it would be nice to have it ported to Aptera

    Aptera isn’t going to build L2 assist from scratch. They’ll integrate something existing based on their business and technical requirements. I wouldn’t assume they aren’t aware of Comma or are not considering it.

  • John Belmonte

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 5:17 am

    Listen to the answer to this question– especially “the demo we had here in San Diego”– straight from the CEO’s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jM5-kqWok4&t=2090s

  • Peter Jorgensen

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 7:25 am

    I would also like access to the CANBUS network. I’d like to read when events happen so a standalone speaker/amp can play custom sounds when the car does something. I’d also like to add my own buttons to trigger events without using the touchscreen. Access to the canbus would be fantastic even if it’s just through an OBD2 port.

    Security risk is low for hacking through the obd2 port so I’m not super concerned about it being unprotected there.

  • Paul Schultz

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 5:52 pm

    Does anyone have any insight into my original questions? There are some of us that do want access to the CAN bus. I do want to use this access to potentially help develop OpenPilot for the Aptera. Apparently my original post allowed a very tangential path… trying to redirect to the original thread topic.

    Paul

  • George Hughes

    Member
    October 13, 2021 at 6:25 pm

    It would seem to me that the decision to ‘open or close’ the CAN bus is binary.

    And if it is binary, the right to repair principle, embraced by Aptera, would strongly suggest that they would not make the type of moves I expect most other automakers.

    Closing and providing roadblocks to the digital innards of the vehicle, seems to me to wreak of self-interest. After GM’s investor meet, in which they told shareholders they expect to sell data, as well as proprietary apps suggests their answer would be to prevent any modification that might inhibit their desire to sell your data or rent you apps.

    Certainly I have no knowledge of engineering decisions being made at Aptera and I’m sure there are arguments for and against allowing access to the CAN bus … but if Chris and Steve are true to the ‘right to repair’ principle including the promise of long term upgradability, the answer should be YES; you’ll have access to the CAN bus and by extension, the controls.

    Frankly, this aspect of the Aptera vision is what cinched the deal for me.

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