Lightyear EV News

[bhtooefr]

My take is that there’s plenty of room for both in the market.

Lightyear One has a more conventional layout and shape, five seats instead of two, about as much cargo space with the rear seat up and ~2.4x the cargo space with the rear seat down, and is narrower (extremely important for some markets, unimportant for others).

Aptera has higher efficiency and therefore longer range on the same battery or the same range on a smaller battery, a larger battery option (Lightyear One is 60 kWh only, Aptera has a 100 kWh option), lower cost, but with the downside of only 2 seats, more controversial styling, and the “if you don’t hit it with the outer wheel, you hit it with the inner wheel” problem with hitting bumps inherent to a three-wheeler.

[dean-mcmanis]

Check out my article about the Aptera, Lightyear One and Sono Sion solar EVs.

https://www.torquenews.com/5474/aptera-solar-plug-ev-breakthrough

[joshua-vance-vance]

Can the Lightyear even be called a competitor at that price range?

[Biker]

Only in the sense that it’s an sEV.

[joshua-rosen]

I don’t see how there can be any market for the Lightyear. $175K is more than a fully tricked out EQS and if were in the mood to spend that kind of money on a car it would be an EQS not a Lightyear. Solar panels on a car are just a gimmick, they serve no useful purpose. Aptera is using that gimmick also but it’s real appeal is it’s efficiency which translates to very long range at a reasonable cost. Solar panels belong on the roofs of houses not on the roofs of cars. A house roof has much more area, weight doesn’t matter and it never goes through a car wash. More importantly you know how much sun it’s going to get. A car parked in a garage gets no sunlight, under a tree very little and even in the best of circumstances in most of the country there just isn’t enough sun to make it worthwhile. Aptera’s 40 mile number is at their home base of San Diego, in Massachusetts where I live the best case scenario is only 20 miles and that assumes you can park it out in the open, we have lots of trees which greatly reduces the sun available to the roof of a car.

[fanfare-100]

$175K is nearing the objective price for the $250K round trip to Mars Elon has been talking about.

I truly would not call this car a “competitor” as these two are in entirely distinct markets with hardly any overlap whatsoever. I don;t believe neither car manufacturer has to worry about the other cutting into their respective markets. ????

[addonis-ryan]

So true, I’d rather own an Aptera in each color and trim than spend $175.000 on one vehicle. The lightyear looks like a wanna-be Tesla also, while the Aptera paradigm has its own identity.

[berri-jam]

I have high doubts about LightSpeed’s 45 mile solar recharge claim. You can’t overcome basic math. There’s not that much more panel space they have compared to Aptera, for a $175,000 EV it must weigh a lot lot more than Aptera’s. Good solar panels are yielding about 23%. No way LightSpeed’s panels will produce 45 miles for their heavier cars. I predict it’s a false claim they can’t deliver on.

[bhtooefr]

Looks like estimates are 1300 kg – compare to Aptera’s target of 816 kg for the same size 60 kWh pack. However, weight is less important with an EV’s efficiency, as you get some of that energy back under regenerative braking.

Aerodynamics are what’s far more important, and there, drag coefficient is higher – “under 0.20” versus 0.13 for Aptera. (I’m not about to compare frontal area – I suspect it’s not actually that different, due to Aptera’s being much wider and taller, but the wheels being podded and away from the body.)

Lightyear One’s charging speed versus efficiency estimates imply about 1000 W of panel, versus 700 W for Aptera. (There may actually be more – I’ve seen some estimates that imply over 1200 W of cells based on their 5 m^2 of area, so it’s quite possible that the curvature of the panels limits insolation and means that you’ll never actually hit a 1200 W peak, and 1000 W is a realistic limit. If that’s the case, Aptera may also be somewhat lower realistic peak.)

One big thing that accounts for differences in claims, though: Lightyear One is using the WLTP cycle for their claims – the standard in Europe – which typically is easier than the EPA test cycles that I believe Aptera’s claims are based on (I think there are a couple exceptions, where Tesla actually has shorter range on some models WLTP than EPA, but the vast majority of cars have shorter range on EPA than WLTP). It’s fair – and in fact necessary – to use WLTP for a product meant for the European market, but it means their range claims aren’t directly comparable (and WLTP ranges tend to be optimistic).

[peter-jorgensen]

Lightyear announces a new solar EV for sale around 2025. So this is a great option similar to the future 4-seat aptera. Probably doesn’t have 600-1000 miles of range though.

https://electrek.co/2021/12/16/lightyear-announces-34000-solar-electric-car/

[joshua-rosen]

<div>https://insideevs.com/news/555076/lightyear-two-solar-ev-2025/</div><div&gt;

It’s going to have a small battery. The Lightyear One has a 60KWh battery, the Two will have a “much smaller” battery although the size wasn’t mentioned. So Peter is correct it’s not going to be a 600 mile car but it could be a 300-400 mile vehicle. A 300 mile car in Europe is probably as much as anyone needs given how short their distances are.

</div>

[curtis-cibinel]

Good. Competition validates the general concept of efficiency and solar. With the general EV industry supply constrained for the next ~5-10 years we are in a weird situation were anything remotely reasonable will sell and its about how well a company can take profits and expand to establish its initial market share by 2030. The massive jump from $170k to $35k will be really difficult to achieve for Lightyear while being profitable – perhaps it will just be a rebadged EV primarily made in china. I’d expect them to be 150-200 mile range which is just fine in europe for most.

[Phil]

I think the Lightyear Two will be very attractive to those looking for a more normal looking, 4 wheeled solar vehicle and will probably be ok with half the range of an Aptera. The 4 wheeled Aptera will probably be 2025 or later, so for now it looks like Lightyear has an advantage over Aptera for this segment, if only for timing of delivery.

[joshua-rosen]

They won’t be head to head for a while. Lightyear is in Europe, if the Two doesn’t come out until 2025 we won’t see it in the US for a couple of years after that if at all. It’s also unlikely that Aptera will make it to Europe before that. The width of the three wheeler is supposedly a problem in Europe and it’s unlikely that Aptera will have a second vehicle before 2025.

[Biker]

Steve covers the start of production:

The world’s first commercial solar electric car is in production! – YouTube

[peter-jorgensen]

I joined the waitlist. It’s free. Not sure how they’re going to achieve their technical targets but we’ll have to see what happens.

https://lightyear.one/lightyear-2#form

[chakman-yeung]

I saw the Lightyear 2 with a price target of less than $40K. That is the ⚡️ highest-voltage shock across the bow ⚡️I have seen for Aptera! I still have high hopes for Aptera, because 🎵I’m gonna ride around in style / I’m gonna drive everybody wild / ‘Cause I’ll have the only one [in my area] there is around. 🎵

[joshua-rosen]

Can’t hurt to join their wait list, doesn’t cost any money. I suspect I’ll be in a nursing home before they come to the US.

[trevor-anderson]

I am committed to Aptera for myself, but the light-year two would be an easy sell for the wife for her future commuter since it is more conventional styling (compared to Aptera) and she picks the kids up on her way home from work so Aptera does not work for her. Her current commuter would be north of 200k by 2027 timeframe so it might align.

At the price point of the light-year two, I don’t think it will be in direct competition with Aptera; but if Aptera creates a more conventional 5 seater (or a van) then I will shift my plans.

[Biker]

Your waitlist position is US05360.

[trevor-anderson]

I am waitlist position US2208.

[V-Pilot]

I’m US02624

[OZ.]

under 1600 here.

[Mike-Mars]

GB00293, I think I was in the first few hours.

It’s just a backup though.

[Phil]

I only found out about it in the afternoon, so mine is a bit higher, US07182.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

Your waitlist position is US14366

Wow that escalated quickly. Plan B.

I’m definitely biased still, for my Made in USA AWD Aptera though. No doubt.

[john-young]

“Your waitlist position is US00167.”

I want both. Then I’ll have something to drive while the other is being rented/test driven.

Wonder if Lightyear will do a referral program?

[randy-j]

I’m CA00100 Canada eh!

[Titus]

In an ideal world these are different cars for different users. I would always prefer flying an Aptera, as well as an investor and as a statement for ultra efficiency and for just loving it. But I got to say in Hamburg, dense city traffic and lane parking on sidewalks I feel tempted for a normal solar car even if I don’t need those 5 seats.

[david-marlow]

It’s great that some people will pay $250,000 for an SEV, It shows the value of them.

[UnidentifiedDrivingObject]

News Flash: Arval BNP Paribas, Europe’s #1 vehicle leasing company, just recently pre ordered 10,000 LIght Year 2 units.

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7020676095960051712/

The Solar Fleet Race, Is On!

[Biker]

Interesting email today from Lightyear:

“Through innovation, dedication, and daring we are shaping the future. Our vision is to offer clean mobility for everyone, everywhere. We first developed Lightyear 0, the first production solar car in the world. At the same time we developed Lightyear 2, the affordable solar electric vehicle available for a wider audience. To make this a reality, we as a company are overcoming many challenges.

The past months we have worked hard to deal with those challenges. In order to safeguard our vision, we had to decide to redirect our focus and resources completely towards Lightyear 2. This means in effect that we had to suspend the production of Lightyear 0.

This decision was not taken lightly as it impacts all who embarked on this journey with us. Those are of course our own employees, who work day in day out to make solar mobility a reality, alongside our investors, clients, suppliers and the government.

This morning we therefore submitted the request to the court to open suspension of payment proceedings in relation to Atlas Technologies B.V., our operating company responsible for the production of Lightyear 0. This is a subsidiary of Atlas Technologies Holding B.V. Atlas Technologies Holding B.V., which holds the IP rights, and Lightyear Layer B.V. are not in scope of the suspension of payments proceedings of Atlas Technologies B.V.

CEO and Co-Founder Lex Hoefsloot: ‘Unfortunately we had to make this decision. The whole process of developing Lightyear 0 has provided our company many valuable learnings over the past years. We are now redirecting all our energy towards building Lightyear 2 in order to make it available to clients on schedule.’

Hoefsloot: ‘Recently, we launched a waitlist for Lightyear 2 resulting in more than 40,000 subscriptions of individual customers and we already had approximately 20,000 pre-orders from fleet owners. We hope to conclude some key investments in the coming weeks in order to scale up to Lightyear 2, an affordable solar electric vehicle available for a wider audience.’

Therefore we strongly believe that the decision taken is the best way forward in achieving our vision, providing clean mobility for everyone, everywhere.”

[Mike-Mars]

suspension of payment proceedings

Seems to be roughly the same thing as Chapter 11 bankruptcy? It is specifically for the LY0 not the LY2, but investors and purchasers will treat it as a red flag.

I put myself on the waitlist (GB00293) as soon as it opened, just as a backup. The Aptera has always been my plan-A, but has to go through L5e-A homologation before it can be sold here, which would involve quite a few changes.

The field of solar cars is getting narrower and narrower as time goes on. There’s only the LY2 and the Aptera left now.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Michael Marsden.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Michael Marsden.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Michael Marsden.
• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Michael Marsden.

[Qiang]

I suspect that given the pre-order and especially the 20k fleet orders, they are close to locking down a substantial capital investment, which will enable them to jump ahead to lightyear 2 production, without accumulating capital through lightyear 0 sale as they originally planned.

[john-malcom]

Certainly a good business decision to pursue the low cost, high volume, vehicle as an emerging market especially with 60K combined reservations. Their technology was proven with a production Light year 0/1. Still, no specs or cost figures. And the “Hell” of production still ahead. A different animal, large scale production than boutique production. Probably will stay with contracted production. it will be a while before Lightyear 2 is a North American competitor for Aptera.

[kerbe2705]

Here’s more… https://electrek.co/2023/01/23/lightyear-0-production-affordable-lightyear-2-solar-ev-wait-list-registrations/