3 WHEEL purity & logic vs. 4 wheels

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions 3 WHEEL purity & logic vs. 4 wheels

Aptera Community Aptera Discussions 3 WHEEL purity & logic vs. 4 wheels

  • 3 WHEEL purity & logic vs. 4 wheels

  • Ronster

    Member
    October 17, 2021 at 3:24 pm

    I know some folks get more excited about a four wheeled version in the future. I like what the three-wheel version, purity, logic but…

    Imagine the Aptera front wheels and fenders and blend to the rear of this. That’s likely what will be the “potential” 4-wheel version look.

  • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

    Member
    October 17, 2021 at 7:12 pm

    4 seater or 2 seater, the rear row people face the rear of car rather than foward as in normal car, allowing utilization of trunk storage space as legroom when all the space isnt used, also allowing access to rear stored stuff. this also excuses making car shorter car length b/c trunk space is usually not fully utilized, so lots of legroom most the time, also cabin airspace around the window height level is less, so lower center of gravity and less cabin space to heat/cool so AC heater is quicker to work/more efficient (and that improves driving range too while making systems smaller in size thus cost). also allows 4 seater to look much more like a larger 2 seater coupe. in 2 seater application, driver is in center of car and passenger is behind. in 4 seater, the passenger seat can be screwed and folded away by customer, and screw holes built in, to allow driver to place driver seat in center of car, for more driving fun like gordon murray t.50 and czinger 21c, which includes less car width. weight is also much more in middle of car vs normal cars, so more of a mid engien driving experince especially if space between front row and rear is where heaviest drivetrain stuff is like electric battery.

    imagine looking at this concept car from teh side: the strunk storage part can stick out behind rear wheels similar to mc laren speedtail plus riversimple rasa, or maybe there is minimal stuff at rear and front, with highest point of cabin being right in middle of car. for areo, formula 1 seat positioning allows feet to be higher up, if that helps.

    cooling can be radiator body like aptera does or a vent slides open venting heat, especially at when air air flows higher pressure into car radiator and flows back out, possibly even looping air vertucally around the space in between front row and rear row where heavy hot part of drivetrain sits ie.

    cars can follow each other like train track cars in a train via software. with 2 seater only, <font face=”inherit”>while allowing multiple drivers go their own way with a passenger and maybe some space, especially given most people drive alone with not much storage space being used most the time and b/c </font>increasing<font face=”inherit”> need and want for both husband wife to go to work at different places at similar/same time plus grocery and other acitivty, software allow one car to follow another like traincar in train track, so 1 driver with 3 passenger, b/c both cars are powered,normal trailer driving style of slower braking and turning vs normal driving, is not needed effiency in running cost payoff such maybe its even less cost over ownership time vs buying minivan or 4 seater, maybe 4 seater and 2 seater replaces minivan, etc. this allows husband wife to goto different places at same time which is unfortunately becoming more common b/c rising cost of living</font><font face=”inherit”>. maybe teh cars can be efficiency optimized for city (lighter weight and more compact size but less aerodynamics) except there could be a removable and/or folding front end areo foil similar to what freight trucks use in teh space above truck roof, covering the trailer, or the front end of formula 1 and pikes peak time attack cars. compactness probably will, and already to a extent, be </font>important<font face=”inherit”> b/c compact living spaces and </font>business<font face=”inherit”> land is great for economic and emissions </font>efficiency ex. parking space tower can be twice as many peoples cars fitting, etc

    sphere like shape is the future b/c spherical structure is generally best for crash strength per mass effeincy, and some rectangle/cylinders with teh crash energy going to the top ends of the rectangle/cylinders (see c8 corvertte and alpine a110 center structure). its also aerodynamic which makes a much bigger difference for high efficiency cars.

    theres concept of having non areodynamic low speed city car, but it has a removable/foldable areo harness to be added for highway. this allows more spherical shape for more crash per mass effiency, also the harness doesnt have to be strong against crash and is removable/avoidable for markets where it will rarely if ever be on highway.

    <font face=”inherit”> laser headlight and led turn signal exists at roof bar where some self driving camrea/sensors sit, so if front end crash, driver can drive home at dark with headlights, no need to wait for tow truck. this allows less holes in chassis, so stronger chassis. it serves as flood light as offroaders use roof light bar. Would be cool if one could use headlight as portable light flood light. lens maybe needed to make </font>straight<font face=”inherit”> light beam despite it going thru sloped windshield. also frees space for personalized </font>aesthetics.

    • Curtis Cibinel

      Member
      October 18, 2021 at 1:09 pm

      I really doubt Aptera will make a 4 wheel vehicle without first examining if it actually has a practical benefit. They currently have a great base design and once they expand outside of it the industry is a lot more compedative.

      For the purpose of having more seats as a “family vehicle” the current design can likely be stretched into a coope as you said. 750 lb would cost range but even taking a 25% hit would still be more than usable based on the current design. Aeorydynamics shouldn’t take much of a hit and suspension would need to be tweaked but shouldn’t need to be a full redesign; likely 80% of parts could be shared.

      • Ray Holan

        Member
        October 18, 2021 at 6:36 pm

        Personally, I hope Aptera sticks with 3 wheels. Does it make good business sense for Aptera to develop a Telsa Model 3, Ford Mach E, or Chevy Bolt competitor and go head to head with them? Assuming Aptera can raise the capital to support the additional testing and regulation meeting requirements for a four wheel automobile, they would have to compete with these larger corporations who already have national and global distribution and dealer networks plus a head start in the marketplace plus credibility and name recognition. Seems to me the deck would be stacked against Aptera doing a four wheel vehicle.

        • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

          Member
          October 18, 2021 at 9:00 pm

          if they sell well as it seems they will, they can go further with the non normal designs with current sales as proof that the stuff sells despite being weird with those concepts i mention. especially if they manage to make car suppress road bump force well, and manage to smaller car, making it sell as a small light sporty car too. how about a optional screw on hydrallic steering rack for connectivity? its not small car but it could make the difference especially in a less wide car

        • Robert Klasson

          Member
          October 19, 2021 at 8:22 am

          It may be difficult to design a stable 3 wheel 4/5 seat vehicle. Load a heavy person behind the driver and you probably get less than desired vehicle stability unless you stretch the length to 20 feet or so. With a 4 wheel vehicle, this wouldn’t be a problem.

          I agree with re-use though. I think they should keep as much of the design as possible. Just stretch it enough to fit a second row of seats. Keep the front and the trunk and replace the single rear center wheel with one in each rear corner as shown in the original post. I saw a video on youtube where Nathan said that four wheels isn’t too much of a hit to aerodynamics compared three since the rear wheels rides in the slip stream behind the front wheels. The rear may need to widened though to make the rear wheels end up directly behind the front wheels, unless you separate the rear wheels from the body like the front wheels or move the front wheels into the body.

          And I definately think they should build a 4 wheel 5 seat vehicle. Even if there is more competition in the family car segment, the market is magnitudes larger than for 3 wheel 2-seaters, so if they just manage to design an efficient family vehicle with functionality comparable to the competition and get it into production at a reasonable cost, I think they will outsell the 2-seaters many times over.

        • George Hughes

          Member
          October 19, 2021 at 12:51 pm

          I think the three-wheel vehicle is essential for high efficiency personal transportation.

          As far as the ability to add passengers, I think that is far from an unsolvable problem.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4OjSJrgn4A

          This cute three-wheeler is also under Sandy Monro’s wing, as I understand it.

          And if you research Elaphe’s offerings, they have demonstrated an in-wheel motor in a vertical suspension piece that offers steering. Put that in the back and you have your three-wheel steering.

    • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

      Member
      October 22, 2021 at 8:26 pm

      also trailers instead of pick up truck beds or big truck boxes

    • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

      Member
      November 2, 2021 at 6:52 pm

      cabin moudle can adapt to rail with adapter or by sitting on rail train pad thats primarily designed for bus modules, detachable areo front. single cars drivetrain may also power bus module and work as freight truck (probably need a dedicated drivetrain chassis for busses and freight, maybe even for amazon delivery van/pickup truck level thing) bus moudle maybe even be economical for flight in drone cargo aircraft, and box shape can work to adapt to cargo shipping container for cargo planes and cargo ships. drivetrain and trailer swaps by rent instead of vehicle switch for temporary uses (so people who buy big SUV for 1% of max storage space use times dont do that)

      2/1 seater will also make more sense when/if the cars turned into rideshare cars not owned in compact cities.

  • Ronster

    Member
    October 19, 2021 at 8:31 am

    As mentioned before, I love the purity & logic behind the three-wheel version. Trying to be everything to everyone isn’t the best move in which to differentiate oneself from a pack IMHO.

    I did post the pic for inspiration tho as we all wait for production of ours.

    I have reservations on two identical, fully loaded, fully optioned 3 wheel units and I can’t wait. Huge fan.

  • Charles Kaneb

    Member
    October 22, 2021 at 9:32 pm

    Why not just stretch the car to 20-21′ to have a good 3-wheel 4-seater without ruining the aerodynamics and freeway range? Americans aren’t averse to long cars, we bought “Deuce and a Quarter” Buicks half a century ago and buy extended-cab extended-bed pickups now.

  • Philip Raymond

    Member
    October 22, 2021 at 11:55 pm

    I do agree with the idea a 4/5 passenger Aptera can be accomplished with 3 wheels, but marketing it would be a huge challenge. Even assuming the first currently known Aptera is a huge success, getting many to buy into a 3 wheeled 4/5 passenger version would require showing a useable, roomy back seat area. The Nobe example is a joke in this respect. The laws of physics come into play, a car is simply more stable with people in the back seat with 4 wheels. This is no doubt why the few models and images of a 4/5 passenger Aptera, from Aptera, have shown a vehicle with 4 wheels, not 3.

    • my_discord_number_is_0328 bloody stupid

      Member
      November 2, 2021 at 6:54 pm

      maybe if they have rear passenger facing backward, wheels not too far from center or gravity, then it could work. i doubt 4 seater will be better than my 2 two seaters concept above in this thread

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